I am sure this has been asked before but I have decided to make the switch from air to liquid cooled and would like some information on both the Subaru and Ecotec. What are the pros and cons for each? I am going to spend a day reading the liquid cooled engine section.
Thanks,
Bryan

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I should have stayed AC...I miss the constant wrenching.

Either one is a good choice. The only cons I can see with the Ecotek is less people have used them therefor less avalable support and the other would be fitting them in the frame. It does have more power than the Subie and that would be a pro. I dont know much about Installing the Ecotek however the Subie is very close to the shape and size of the VW motor so take that into account if your doing a VW swap.

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Water cooled Dry Sumped Subaru Powered Turbo Charged Fuel Injected 2500CC Tank. Oh Rah! He who dies with the most Toys not only wins, He also wears them out!

The VW engine is at home in a buggy,,,the Subaru is comfortable there too,,low center of gravity,,weight bias located over rear tires,,,the Ecotec is 4 cylinders deep so the weight bias is a little rearward,,,calling for extended trailing arms...and upward raising the center of gravity some,,, but still not enough to deter you from using it. Aftermarket parts are becoming very available for Ecotec and they are abundant in the salvage yards. I talked to Tom at Enginewiring.com and he says the Ecotec is the wave of the future,,,,lots of power in a small package. I don't doubt that in Woodsbuggys the numbers are about equal right now and will someday lean toward Ecotec,,,but I am gonna stay Suby for a while , cause I prefer the power and torque band,,,,, good luck

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If your clutch ain't slippin,, you probably got it adjusted right!!!!!

I am running 5x3 trailing arms with coil overs and this is a new build so the freedom is there to make adjustments if necessary. It sounds like the best options are the EJ22e and EJ251. What type of hp come with the stock engines and what would you get out of them with some smaller modification? I really do not want to put a turbo on it but would like to see it run. Basically what would it take to make a 200+ hp 4 cylinder Subaru?
I have a brand new 0 mile 2332 VW that I built and it is sitting on the bench waiting to be installed. I put a lot of time and money into the engine and I want to make sure it is worth it to give it up. I should add that I put top of the line parts into the engine and it has large heads and dual 44 Webers. I have a 2276 in my current buggy that gets up and moves and the new engine should smoke it. The reason I am looking to change is I do get sick of playing with the carbs and it would be nice to have the fuel injection when we head out West and run the mountains. I have thought about buying an EFI for the VW but have heard mixed reports. I would also like to hook up a heating unit on the water lines on the wc engine for the colder rides. I do not have the room for a 6 cylinder or I would look at that as an option. I have heard all good things about the Ecotec but I do not like the height.
What is the availability of performance parts for both wc engines?

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I should have stayed AC...I miss the constant wrenching.

To get 200HP out of a N/A 2.5 Subie you will need to port the heads and Install Delta cams. Also replace the Pistons with higher compression units and stronger rods to be on the safe side. Keep in mind that Delta cams will put your power band in the upper portion of the RPM range and not the best for trail riding. If you decide to go with the 2332 I have a CB performance Fuel Injection system along with the MSD Ignition if your Interested. I have one season on it.

Here is a link to good Info on Building Subie motors:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/forumdi ... order=desc

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Water cooled Dry Sumped Subaru Powered Turbo Charged Fuel Injected 2500CC Tank. Oh Rah! He who dies with the most Toys not only wins, He also wears them out!

http://www.outfrontmotorsports.com/motor_matrix.htm Any good information here?

Odyknuck, Thanks for the link, I will go get more of an education. I also sent you an email.

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I should have stayed AC...I miss the constant wrenching.

I say ecotec but i'm a gm guy at heart and i want one in my buggy. Early version were about 150 hp, newer ones are 170 hp,supercharged are 205hp and the new turbo ones are rated at 265. these motors have proven to be super reliable and lots of aftermarket stuff available. there all aluminum and have no external bracketry. everthing alt,pwr stg pump etc bolts directly to mtr.

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Turbocharged Ecotec,vanogon midshift,Berrien WoodsBuggy wagon.

talk to motoman626 he just did a ecotec in his buggy.

Pro is you dont have to modify the oil pan. It fit right in his buggy
Also not a hill that can stop it.

I did not get an email try this: cyclefab@aol.com I have dealt with Jeramy at Outfront and have had good experiences. They have some tech articals however not for motor building. They want to build one for you.

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Water cooled Dry Sumped Subaru Powered Turbo Charged Fuel Injected 2500CC Tank. Oh Rah! He who dies with the most Toys not only wins, He also wears them out!

Hmm! I thought the Ecotek had more than 170 HP. Being thats the case I would opt for the Subie 2.5 at 5 HP less because it's more Installation friendly and weight bias.

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Water cooled Dry Sumped Subaru Powered Turbo Charged Fuel Injected 2500CC Tank. Oh Rah! He who dies with the most Toys not only wins, He also wears them out!

Ody I've seen your build. I wouldnt call that installation friendly, lol. My pontiac 2.3 is the older version of an aluminum ecotec. once you have the adapter it fits right into the stock cage. Wire it up and find a good home for the radiator, then let her rip. But I will deffinatly agree it puts more weight to the rear. GREAT for traction but if you want to go up the steepest hills I would think the subie would be better. I also think you need to put the radiator towards the front of the motor or you arnt gaining anything on an eco. My buggy is light up front but then again I run an aluminum front beem and spindle mount front rims and nothing extra on the front that would add weight. If I had this engine in ODY or P-Bills buggies I dont think you could tell the weight difference. Just my opinion.

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We really need to line these things up on a nice friendly hill,,,,say at CrazyHorse aug 1st,,,yea,,,that's a good idea

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If your clutch ain't slippin,, you probably got it adjusted right!!!!!

So your saying we build Tanks?

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Water cooled Dry Sumped Subaru Powered Turbo Charged Fuel Injected 2500CC Tank. Oh Rah! He who dies with the most Toys not only wins, He also wears them out!

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2332cc Air Cooled Screaming Meanie. Predator Singleseat.

"Lets go get stupid"

No Ody, Tanks have tracks, yours is some sort of Hybrid

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Ha! Ha! Nows thats just Funny! Umm BTW let me know when you can keep up with Me and my Hybrid. When are you coming to Wellsville again to try?

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Water cooled Dry Sumped Subaru Powered Turbo Charged Fuel Injected 2500CC Tank. Oh Rah! He who dies with the most Toys not only wins, He also wears them out!

Not sure but b4 summer ends. And in all fairness its hard to follow when I gotta wait till the dust falls so I can see the trail. And after following you and bill there is no way I'm running down a trail blind in 2nd gear, lol.

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Hey nittro the trick is being up front theres no dust there Im not so shure i could keep up with ody or plummer bill if they had 5 hp go carts. They can drive

DAREK

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I want to die in my sleep like my grandpa. not screaming like the passengers in his car...

The ecotec and quad 4s are VERY similar but ARE diferent engines. The ecotec is also all alum from top to bottom except the intake which is plastic. I read somewhere that an ecotec weighs in the neighborhood of 300 lbs. Thats pretty light for a fair sized inline 4. Nitros quad4 is iron blocked and therefore heavier but the high output versions were rated at 190 hp i believe. I have no clue what subie weight is.

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Turbocharged Ecotec,vanogon midshift,Berrien WoodsBuggy wagon.

i was thinking that the quad 4's that was in the oldsmobile also was all aluminum block and heads with 200hp. i might be wrong i dont know 100%.chad

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NOW GAS IT!!!!!

My suby weighs in at 252, thats with rad and a gallon of water. My strocker weighed 209 lbs.

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"YOU CAN MAKE THINGS HAPPEN, WATCH THINGS HAPPEN OR WONDER WHAT THE F$$K HAPPEND...WE'RE MAKING THINGS HAPPEN" The strong words of Captain Phil! Rest in peice!

Well suby wins on weight. I have never seen an alum block quad 4 but most of the H.O. ones did come in Oldsmobiles.

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Turbocharged Ecotec,vanogon midshift,Berrien WoodsBuggy wagon.

Well being a non-engine guy, I love the idea of stock bolt-on horsepower. Its a trade-off just like evetything else.

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Here are some of the things I have learned recently. This is not just from this web site but all that I have been to in the last week.
1. People generally over estimate horse power!
2. Rumor and hearsay surpass truth by a landslide!
3. It takes forever to read through anything to find answers due to the "I should post something just to post something even if I have absolutely nothing productive to contribute" posts.
4. The difference between the stroked VW, 2.2 Subaru, and 2.2 Ecotec are closer than people think.
5. Each has its advantages and disadvantages.
6. Dollar for dollar you will get twice as much out of a liquid cooled engine. Basically a 5k VW will cost you about 2.5k to build an equivalent liquid cooled. Granted these numbers can and will very depending on how much you can do yourself. Arguing this point is futile because I personally can come up with 1000 different scenarios with a different outcome for each. So please do not chew up a thread by arguing each one. I will just say "yes you are correct when you say..."
I will post some of the current facts that I find and links that one may find beneficial over the next few weeks.

Bryan

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I should have stayed AC...I miss the constant wrenching.

While you are at it research the eg33 suby,,from the svx,,,I would be interested in your take

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If your clutch ain't slippin,, you probably got it adjusted right!!!!!