This post might start a firestorm.. Ive read alot of post about the comparisons of Air cooled and Watercooled. Basically it is like comparing apples to oranges.. My question goes out to all the guys who have actually done this conversion.. I think thier opinion should be taken seriously because theyve been there.. Guys bitching about how shitty watercooled is when theyve never owned or even rode in one.. Same way with guys bitchin about how old and unreliable air cooled and theyve never ran one.. So if youve done the conversion lets here your opinion and put SOME rest to this subject.. After all youve done it..

_________________
Bye Bye Buggy, I'll always miss you and never forget you, your going to a better place now.

I'm very partial to VW but many of my friends have Subaru power and I'm extremely impressed. I won't knock they're decision because thats their choice. But I WILL rag on them just for the fun of it.

_________________
When in doubt, hit it in second gear!

Your right your probly gonna start a firestorm. I have had both and like both for different reasons.
First the v-dub, I have been around vws since I was 13 and 7th grade. My first ride in a buggy was a 64 bug that got t boned then converted. It was a pan buggy with a swing axle, 1600cc with bugspray. My last v-dub power plant was 2077 stroker, big difference! The things I like about the a/c is the lope of the cam and sound of the straight cut gears. It had great power and was reliable. The times I got pulled from the woods was usually tranny related not motor. The draw backs were maintanace wich wasnt that bad. fuel economy sucked cause I need turbo blue or av-gas and I used 10 gal more per weekend.
Second, the Suby. It starts and runs with no ckoke, It has 216,000 miles on it before it hit the buggy. When I put it in the car I didnt even change the plugs. These motors are almost free, I found three cars on craigslist tonight for 500 or less. The power is about equal to the stroker but with more torque and alot better throttle responce. No need to let it cool down between climbs, 87 octane gas, turn key and go, once a year oil change and air filter change.

The biggest thing to the vw was its avalibility, when this sport started to grow from model T,s. guys found the vw was avalible around every corner for 50 bucs. Thats why I'm using Suby, I got a spare in the garage and another on the way. These motors run the same as stroker without the machine work and expense.

Dont get me wrong, its not the only way to go but its cheap horsepower with reliability. I will never forget the thrill of the vw experience. I cant afford to build a stroker if the one I have blows but I can bolt another suby on in 60 mins. No waitng for a machine shop and parts. Its not to expensive to convert either. I did mine for under a grand.

_________________
"YOU CAN MAKE THINGS HAPPEN, WATCH THINGS HAPPEN OR WONDER WHAT THE F$$K HAPPEND...WE'RE MAKING THINGS HAPPEN" The strong words of Captain Phil! Rest in peice!

I agree with Dave.I completly understand why someone would convert. I have ridden in ky-bc's buggy. It is very nice. Personally I love my Shadetree Performance motor and will never switch. But it is totally up to each one of us how we build our motors. Also I will continue to take jabs at guys who do things diffeant than I cause it is fun.
I am not a militant VW or die type. I really enjoy seeing guys build buggies and get in the woods. It is really pretty silly for us to even argue over our motors. Lets face it watercooled motors on buggies is nothing new. Pinto motors have been used for years and some guys love them.
So feel free to talk about any motor you want. But, if you decide to say you are gonna go suby because VW is junk, there are a few of us here waiting to defend our beloved little motors.
Dean

_________________
It's amazing what you can accomplish when you don't care who gets the credit.-
Harry S. Truman

you could realy get out on a limb like me. had air cooled corvairs for years now i have a 3.8 gm on a island all by myself.to each his own

_________________

I don't personally know about vw much. I had them for a while, when it went bad I got another bug and pulled the engine. I don't want to go into a engine if I can help it. I got into suby in a trade. I did re-ring an ea81 carbed engine once and it was easy,, stayed out of the bottom of the engine. Basically I just like to be different,,if you hadn't noticed. When WC takes over,,,I will look for an AC

_________________
If your clutch ain't slippin,, you probably got it adjusted right!!!!!

I agree with everybody, all it matters is as long as everybody is having fun whether you have AC or WC buggies, I know that I give other guys that has WC buggies on here a hard time, but it is part of the fun to make this website more interesting. I love my A/C 2276cc, I would like a little more power, but I think it is all in the gearing and the driver ability. I am keeping pace on the A/C side and will always look for better options to make it better and more simple, the sky's the limit for everybody

_________________
"Loud pipes saves lives"

Good input guys.. Keep it coming. Any a merry Christmas to all..

_________________
Bye Bye Buggy, I'll always miss you and never forget you, your going to a better place now.

personally I went water cooled b/c I like new ideas and being different. I like building stuff that make people think.

I'm the same way. 100%

_________________
"YOU CAN MAKE THINGS HAPPEN, WATCH THINGS HAPPEN OR WONDER WHAT THE F$$K HAPPEND...WE'RE MAKING THINGS HAPPEN" The strong words of Captain Phil! Rest in peice!

Please dont read this post as a bash session, it is just the opinion I have developed from what I have seen first hand in the woods.

I can also see the benefit of wc engines. They can be cheaper and quicker to replace, among other benefits. They are cool because they are different and variety is the spice of life. Its really neat to see a buggy like Firebugs and others that are not the cookie cutter buggy that we run here. But our cookie cutters are very different from each other if you look close enough.
I have driven three wc 'little' buggies, a domestic V6, an import V6, and a suby. I can never understand how guys who have converted can talk about the 'killerthrottle response' the fi motors have. None of the wc buggies I drove were even close to being as crisp as any hi compression dual carbed AC motor I have driven. I'm not trying to knock them, the 'drivability' and smoothness of the WC buggies was very impressive.
Also , the torque of WC motors is bragged about. I felt way less torque in all of them than my 2387 had, much less my 2500. The only one that was close was the 3.1 Chevy. I hear some 'converters' say the power is about the same as their stroker, but all strokers are not the same, and none of the guys I've read about had anything bigger than a 2276. The difference in power of a 2276 and a 14:1 2500 is about the same as the difference between a 1600 and a hot 1915, for NO weight gain.
I rode with guys with other WC motors, and they will get you down any trail just as well or better than a big VW, provided they are on a well built buggy. But, NONE of them , not even ONE of them, could climb extreme hills anything close to like what a hi compression big AC powered buggy will do, even with a very experienced driver.

WC engines definately have their place and benefits. My 2500 was built for Claytons mid engine buggy, and it was on there for one ride, but it didnt have enough ass to pull the automatic and big heavy tires. But on a regular 'conventional' manual transaxled no-chains buggy, I'll stick to AC until a WC one outclimbs me consistently.

Larry

Guys I just did a little research on dune buggies. And while you may think I am just trying to be a smartass. I really am not. Dune Buggies have been around for a long time.Longer that I thought. Certianly much longer than aircooled VW motors have been here in the states. I found a few old dune buggy pic's.







I did not find dates for all these pic's but I guess my point is that it all started with watercooled.
Then in 1964 when Bruce Meyers invented the fiberglass dune buggy the VW powered buggy took over. The Meyers Manx received widespread recognition when it won the inaugural Mexican 1000 race, the predecessor of the Baja 1000 and beating motorcycles, cars and trucks in the process. The aircooled VW is still very much alive in offroad racing today.

I guess it made sense. I remember my Dad buying lots of $50 beetles. They were cheap and plentyful.

I found this pic of my first buggy. I used to pour the after shave out of it a little at a time because Mom told me I couldn't have it till it was empty.

Anyway I just wanted to show you guys that water cooled is nothing new to dune buggies. VW engines are certianly not as easy to find as they once were and cheap is also a thing of the past. It looks to me like dune buggies have always been and will always be primaraly powered by what is easiest and cheapest to find. And if that is really the case it most likely is a matter of time till air cooled is in the minority. But there will always be lots of us out there who love that motor and will do what it takes to own one.

_________________
It's amazing what you can accomplish when you don't care who gets the credit.-
Harry S. Truman

i read a big story on the the dual wheel ford buggy his son found it after 30 years and is rebuilding it

_________________
i dont always ride my buggy but when i do im glad it has a bad ass bow tie makin the horsepower

Jesus loves me, but everyone else thinks im an asshole.

Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration, don't fail us now!

found it http://www.bob2000.com/bugreward.htm
http://www.bob2000.com/bugrebuild.html

_________________
i dont always ride my buggy but when i do im glad it has a bad ass bow tie makin the horsepower

Jesus loves me, but everyone else thinks im an asshole.

Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration, don't fail us now!

Do you still have the buggy aftershave bottle Dean?

_________________
Bryan

Ha Ha thats good lmao.. Hopefully it was a joke..

_________________
Bye Bye Buggy, I'll always miss you and never forget you, your going to a better place now.

I've got one of those buggy avon bottles still filled with the original stinky cologne.

_________________
Aut Viam Invenium Aut Faciam!

The reason I ask, the ex wife use to take consignment stuff to sell on ebay and somehow she ended up with a whole box of those empty avon bottles that is still up in my attic. I had forgotten all about it until you posted that pic. Hell it's been up there for about 6 years now and I need to get it down and go through it. Didn't know if you wanted one or not if I had some. I always like the train ones for some reason. Weird how little shit like that makes an impression on young kids. Things to make you go hmmmmmmmmm.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread. I have a w/c but it's mostly a bastard compared to what others are running. It's a 1.9 dohc saturn motor. Nice motor but I haven't really pushed it to see what it's capable of in my current setup. It doesn't get much respect from the other w/c guys but it's good enough for right now.

_________________
Bryan

how much do those suby's weight?

_________________
Air cooled forever,i hate rusty tools!!!!!!!

50 pounds heavier than stroker vw.

_________________
"YOU CAN MAKE THINGS HAPPEN, WATCH THINGS HAPPEN OR WONDER WHAT THE F$$K HAPPEND...WE'RE MAKING THINGS HAPPEN" The strong words of Captain Phil! Rest in peice!

What is the actuall weight . I got my frieght bill around here with the weight but cant find it.

_________________
Bye Bye Buggy, I'll always miss you and never forget you, your going to a better place now.

250 +or - a pound, I think mine was 252 with rad and exhaust.

_________________
"YOU CAN MAKE THINGS HAPPEN, WATCH THINGS HAPPEN OR WONDER WHAT THE F$$K HAPPEND...WE'RE MAKING THINGS HAPPEN" The strong words of Captain Phil! Rest in peice!

i think mine was more w/ turbo and intercooler..

_________________
Bye Bye Buggy, I'll always miss you and never forget you, your going to a better place now.

Larry are you saying Claton can't climb with you consistently in his W/C BUGGY

Yep pretty much wrong w/c LOL There are a few saturns out there but they don't seem to be as stong as the suby's. I didn't think I would want to upgrade motors this early in the game but I have been looking out for a suby.

I have found this one but can't get him to reply with what size engine it is. Not sure if it would be a good one for a swap or not. How bout it suby guys, if this is a 2.5 would it be a good canidate?

http://lexington.craigslist.org/cto/952666873.html

he replied with 4 cyl -AJB

_________________
Bryan