I really doubt you could duplicate the XP or the Commander for the Money you can buy it for and have it work as well and as long. Also the reason for buying a factory SxS is just that , it's factory. Manufactures have a building full of engineers and testers and an unlimited budget. Even with all that they still are constantly making upgrades. And we have none of that!

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Water cooled Dry Sumped Subaru Powered Turbo Charged Fuel Injected 2500CC Tank. Oh Rah! He who dies with the most Toys not only wins, He also wears them out!

Ody this is one time I don't agree with you.Building anything takes a certain degree of ability. There have been buggies long LONG before there were a side x side that's a lot of R&D over the course of all the years this has been going on. I wont say duplicate it because that would be the same old stamped metal stuff they are made of .I am just saying look at Glamis Dunes at all the busa buggy's you take a stock side x side stock hammer it I don't think it will hold up Curts didn't last 5 rides

Well Rock, we can agree to dissagree lol. Buggys are not SxSs and are designed totaly different. About the only thing they have in common is 4 wheels. We also can not put a Bulsa powered Buggy in the same class as a SxS. Again they are a different animal. The Busa buggys would not last long in the Woods either. I am sure that Curt was exceeding the design capabilitys of the stock RZR and of cource its broke, after all we are taking about Curt are we not. My point is the SxSs are decent alternative to a Buggy without the hassels that come along with them no more no less. They don't replace them they merly compliment them in their design. For example I consider myself a knowledgable person when it comes to building a buggy. Without counting I have at least 25 grand into my Woodsbuggy and right now the Motor and trans is out of it for repair, the rear trailing arms have to be completety rebuilt including replacement of a stub axel and rotor (only one season on brand new every thing including chromoly arms). I have to replace the complete front end that includes beam, arms,spindles and rack. This will be the third time on arms and spindles and the 6th time on bearings and bushings in the arms and spindles. I have Installed two completly differernt ratio transmissions to get it right. The shifting mechanisum has been nothing but a pain in the ass. I have installed two completey differently power steering systems on it. Shall i go on! And to think I built this buggy brand new only 3 years ago. I have upgraded pretty much every thing on it and I started with high dollar stuff in the beginning. So my point is I don't see me having to do all of that on my SxS for the next 3 years. I will get in push start button and drive! Sure things will break and need fixed however i do not have to reinvent the wheel every season. There is no doubt in my mind that Factory engineering wins hands down.

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Water cooled Dry Sumped Subaru Powered Turbo Charged Fuel Injected 2500CC Tank. Oh Rah! He who dies with the most Toys not only wins, He also wears them out!

i have to agree with rock on this. We have some thing they do not have. we have there's we can copy. the engineering has already been done.

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Well, your not done yet!

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Water cooled Dry Sumped Subaru Powered Turbo Charged Fuel Injected 2500CC Tank. Oh Rah! He who dies with the most Toys not only wins, He also wears them out!

i find myself agreeing with rock o again ive seen the best these engineers have to offer, actually twice my cousin and my uncle have the razors and after spending 15,000 from factory they dumped thousands more!!! and the first one didnt last half a day following us at lbl and the second didnt last the next day so each to his own and i wish you the best of luck but!!! you will never buy a side by side that compares to a real buggy and thats just facts and yes i think for the money they could easily be duplicated for what they are my opinion and that aint much

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lets just ride

o yea! the first razor i talked about was traded for half what he had in it cause it wouldnt take the abuse (guess what it was traded for?)

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lets just ride

personnaly i love the razrs, i rode in a few and never had a prob.... but anything ever built can break if its treated like total shit and it may be pricey but its alot easier to replace a factory part than remake custom stuff all the time... thats my 2 cents

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If your not God, then don't judge me

I' ve rode them too. and i would destroy one or maybe destroy me!!!!LOL i just think they are fun but not meant to be drivin like a good built woodsbuggy!!! i don't have 15,000 in my buggy or even a 1/3 im close to the 1/3, but i beat the sh^t out of it and still dont work on it enough to want a sxs ...i know Steves Can-am is awesome but its just not me. BUT to duplicate one i think would be a lil more difficult than you think. build one with a build sheet and we may follow.... but i doubt it so i guess i agree with a wc guy...lmao

Really Dave its ok to agree with a WC guy. I am sure you have not lost any good standing with the AC Guys lol. I had the Commander out two weekends before the season ended and beat the crap out it. Mechanically I broke nothing. It went everywhere I have taken my Buggy with the exception of a few places. And that comes down to just size. There was some places that it did much better than a Woodsbuggy. So I see the Commander as a very viable option. I don't care much for the RZR line. I feel they are made really cheap. I looked at them for a year and could not pull the trigger on one. Then Can Am came out with the Commander "X". A much more powerful and well built machine. 85 HP with 4 wheel drive. Don't get me wrong, I still have my Woodsbuggy and have no near future plans of getting rid of it otherwise i would not be dumping another several thousand into it this winter.

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Water cooled Dry Sumped Subaru Powered Turbo Charged Fuel Injected 2500CC Tank. Oh Rah! He who dies with the most Toys not only wins, He also wears them out!

Hey Steve, your arguing with some that think air cooled is the only way to go. Even riding lawn mowers are finnaly going watercooled.

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"YOU CAN MAKE THINGS HAPPEN, WATCH THINGS HAPPEN OR WONDER WHAT THE F$$K HAPPEND...WE'RE MAKING THINGS HAPPEN" The strong words of Captain Phil! Rest in peice!

I gotta take Rocko's side , too.

Ody, do you drive around ANYTHING in your buggy? OR just blunder over and bash into every obstacle in the woods? I never heard of such nice stuff wearing out so quickly , even if its beat on EVERY week. I always thought a big part of skilled driving was taking care of your equipment WHILE you drive it aggressively .

Don't ride Wellsville much do ya! Really don't know what the terrain is like were you ride. Wellsville has some really rocky areas and its almost Impossiable to miss every rock, trench, stump or log. having a 2500# Buggy hitting these obstacles does not help. Also keep in mind I am a fast and agressive trail rider not a hill climber so I spend 90% of my riding time on the trails not sitting at the bottom of a hill watching others climb sipping on a beer!

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Water cooled Dry Sumped Subaru Powered Turbo Charged Fuel Injected 2500CC Tank. Oh Rah! He who dies with the most Toys not only wins, He also wears them out!

I've seen Odyknuck in action,,he give a buggy he!!. He built his buggy to take it. We gotta admit buggys are regional for the most part,,some melding going on but a lot of segregation too. Just like the London crew has come together to perfect hill climbing in a vw buggy so too has the Wellsville gang perfected trail flying. The Bama bunch has top ranking on washed out powerline mastering. I am embarrassed to say I have not figured out what I can do We are learning a lot from each other thanks to this site,,,even though some will not admit it. these are my opinions and not necessarily those of this site and its contributors. helmets save brains

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If your clutch ain't slippin,, you probably got it adjusted right!!!!!

Nope, never been to Wellsville. If its a rock garden, dont guess I ever will. I wasnt trying to insult, just curious . It would just really suck to me if top notch stuff was breaking like cheap chinese stuff. 2500# probably has a whole lot to do with the carnage. Ever ran over any dirtbikes or 4 wheelers or people hangin out?? Somebody would get killed if you rode the trails balls out like that in most of the parks I've seen. Each there own, I reckon.

No Insult taken. Just explaining Wellsvilles terrain effect on my buggy. Believe me I would rather not break my parts all the time. Its been really expensive and time consuming to keep it running. It is the main reason I bought the commander, so I have something to drive when it's broke. I don't have to beat my self up to go riding the following weekend. Load the commander up and go. I have never ran over any quads or people however a quad ran over me. Well actully he hit my left front wheel and flew over my Buggy at about 50 MPH. It snapped my tie rod and left spindle. He was ok and that was good. Turns out he camps right acroos the road from us.

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Water cooled Dry Sumped Subaru Powered Turbo Charged Fuel Injected 2500CC Tank. Oh Rah! He who dies with the most Toys not only wins, He also wears them out!

Wellsville is not a "rock garden". just as much, or probably more fresh, uncut trails and hills there as anywhere else. Just so happens that THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS ride there on a holiday weekend, and some of the main trails and hills get the sh!t beat out of them, exposing rocks, stumps, etc. My basic style buggy holds up down there, but I have a completely different riding style. You guys would truely have to come and ride at wellsville to see how diverse the terrain is, and to be able to truthfully understand the abuse that buggies like ody's and plumberbill's go through, due to their riding style.

SxS's would be fun for something to tool around in on say a weekend where I want to go to wellsville and do some quick scouting or when the buggies broke or winter time, etc. etc. etc..... Has anyone seen the Joyners? I seen one at wellsville and I was overly impressed, especially for the money.