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Rack & Pinion made easy
http://www.woodsbuggy.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4685		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Huey [ Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Rack & Pinion made easy
Got tired of replaceing VW type steering boxes and didn't want to spend a lot of money changing it over. After spending some time at D&K I saw this.
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The rack is from a mid 80's midsize GM car. I got one from pull-a-part and started installing it on my buggy. Its almost as if it were made for a buggy. Even the tie rods will work out after I get an angled reamer and make the holes a little bigger. The guy in the picture above has his power steering hooked up but said it would work fine by just tieing the 2 hoses together on the rack. I plan on hooking mine up later but for now will just run it with the hoses tied together. Here is a couple pictures of what mine looks like so far.
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Author:  DVS1 [ Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rack & Pinion made easy
Nice!! Some day I'll get of my lazy butt and do that to mine
Author:  Firebug [ Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rack & Pinion made easy
I had Grand Am rack and got beat up with the bump steer. I changed to center loading econo rack,,,then I saw the answer to using the Grand Am with less bump steer. Someone built a box that transferred the load from front side of rack to back side of rack . That way you can locate the rack nearer to the beam and reduce the bump steer. Ingenious
Author:  Huey [ Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rack & Pinion made easy
Well, I hope I don't have too much bump steer. I don't understand how moving the rack closer to the beam makes a difference. If I have bumpsteer problems can I just add a shock to the steering? The guy in the first picture said his steering worked great and one of his buddies also had the same setup with wihout the power steering pump. I'm too far into it to turn back now. Good or bad I'm gonna try it. I will post the results after my ride on the 11th and 12th at D&K :mrgreen: http://www.woodsbuggy.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4638. This is the same place that was eating up the steeing boxes on mine and my brothers buggy before. The rough terrain jerks the steering from side to side and destroys the VW box after just a few rides. Of course last time I went I did hit a couple of trees also.
Author:  Firebug [ Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rack & Pinion made easy
I ran mine for a couple of years and it never broke. It has plenty of turning radius and never got sloppy. My buggy has extended front trailing arms and thay may have made mine feel like it had more bump steer. Adding a shock does not eliminate bump steer but it may help control the speed at which the bump steer effects handling. I also tried hooking up the power steering pump and could not get it to work,,,I guess I must been doing something wrong :?
Author:  Stevo [ Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rack & Pinion made easy
I used a chevy malibu cavalier saturn rack. It works real good so far.
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Author:  Firebug [ Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rack & Pinion made easy
Here is the pic I took of the steering I saw.. forgot I had a pic. I wished I had done mine like this

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Author:  Huey [ Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rack & Pinion made easy
Hey Steve, do you have the power steering connected? Do you have any problems with bump steer? It looks great how long and where have you been running it? Hey Firebug, is that the box you where talking about that moves the rack closer to the beam?
Author:  Firebug [ Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rack & Pinion made easy
Huey wrote:
Hey Steve, do you have the power steering connected? Do you have any problems with bump steer? It looks great how long and where have you been running it? Hey Firebug, is that the box you where talking about that moves the rack closer to the beam?


Yes , I saw this buggy at Aetna,,Who owns it? The box is aluminum ,,,,I racked my brain trying to figure out how to do this and then when I saw this ,,I said to myself,,,Dummy there it is :roll:
Author:  rockrockets1 [ Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rack & Pinion made easy
bump steer is when your tires go up and down they go in and out .It has nothing to do with rocks and roots yanking the steering wheel out of your hand a lot of people get the two things mixed up

ues a Berreta power rack it center loads just like a saco or econo rack my buddy Mat [aka GA hillclimber] uses one on his CD buggy it leaks after a while but it is always under warranty from Autozone life time 8)
Author:  purplerail [ Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rack & Pinion made easy
steve is your ps pump hooked up?
Author:  Stevo [ Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rack & Pinion made easy
The power steering is hooked up and I love it! Two finger steering no mater where I go. Ive only run it at wellsville for three or four rides so far. The bump steer is very minimal, maybe 1/4 inch or less. I will let you know how long it lasts. I have one of those racks picured in the pics Hueys pics, It came from an 88 pont lemans.
Author:  kybuggy1 [ Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rack & Pinion made easy
Is That buggy in the first pic Roger's from Lexington,KY? Looks like it. Very nice and well built trail buggy. If he is who gou talked to then he can tell you how to use that GM rack and avoid bad bumpsteer. I know this because he told me how to on my two seated and it worked great!! Just try to mount it so that the tied rods are as level and in a straight line as possible. I remounted the rack in my old buggy , per his advice, and it made a huge difference. Works great, and very tough. Pretty heavy, though.


Larry
Author:  redrail1915 [ Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rack & Pinion made easy
roger is the best at gm steering he told me how to do mine works great i think he makrs the bracket for gm pump to fit vws
Author:  Bad Influence [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rack & Pinion made easy
Huey, did you ever get this running in your buggy? I'm getting ready to put a saturn rack in mine thanks to SubySteve!! :)

The best I can tell it needs to be level and tie rods straight for best performance?

Anybody with any experience please chime in.

Thanks
Author:  Firebug [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rack & Pinion made easy
I ran that rack but had bad bump steer.,,It seemed durable enough and I like the ease of turning and plenty of turning radius but bad bump steer. Went to econo rack mounted to the beam and am very pleased now.
Author:  Bad Influence [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rack & Pinion made easy
Thanks for the input Firebug. I have been on the fence about this for awhile. I have heard nothing but good about these racks until yours. Did you have yours mounted close to the beam or out a little like Subysteve's?

Most people don't like the econo racks. Go figure.
Author:  Firebug [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rack & Pinion made easy
I had mine mounted as far forward as I could get it without the tierods hitting the rack, Since then I discovered a way to mount it further forward. I posted a pic earlier in this thread. the rod ends mount on the wrong side of the rack unless you figure out a way to cross it over like the fella did on that one. The buggy I rode at Huntsville's Monster truck show was done this way and it did very well, but I don't think it will hold up to the torture I would put it through. If you can fab up something like that it would be worth a try .,,,good luck
Author:  Huey [ Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rack & Pinion made easy
Yes, I have it installed with a few rides on it. I haven't really noticed any problems with the bump steer. Then again I'm just a trail rider not a professional by any means. I'm sure it would be better mounted like Firebug said, but until it gives me trouble I will just leave it alone. Mine is mounted like the one pictured in the first post. I did have to cut the 2 vertical brace pipes loose and move them back about an inch to get it to fit without rubbing. I didn't hook up a steering pump and don't need to. It steers great with out it. I just filled it with fluid and jumped the lines together. It steers easier than a stock VW steering box. :)
Author:  Bad Influence [ Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rack & Pinion made easy
Thanks Huey!! And tell Damnit Matthew I said Hi!!
Author:  Kyle [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rack & Pinion made easy
look at my pics bryan, mine was not straight or level but set for 0 bump steer. i don't think steves is either. those other racks are total different setups.
Author:  Strong [ Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rack & Pinion made easy
Huey's rack did not bumpsteer as bad as firebugs because the tire rods are much longer on a center load rack (huey's rack) than an end load rack (blue buggies rack). When 2 tierods travel in the same arc. The longer tierod will have less length change.Which means it will pull and or push on the steering arm of the spindle less as the suspension travels up and down.=less bumpsteer.
Author:  diamonddav [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rack & Pinion made easy
since i broke my rag joint and tore up my tie rods i want to put r&p on my buggy! so what i have is the ball joint front end, (which probably need replaced), but what is my best route to take? i would like to use new parts though, not junk yard parts(not that theres anything wrong with that) and would'nt mind something on the easier side of hooking up!!ha so what do you guys think,latest rage or what?
Author:  Bad Influence [ Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rack & Pinion made easy
Firebug likes his Latest Rage/Econo Rack. I'm thinking if I go aftermarket rack I'm going Saco. I do want to do some road riding in the future and from what I understand the econo racks are a little twitchy for the road. Still investigating though.
Author:  fortydegnorth [ Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rack & Pinion made easy
All the aftermarket racks will be fast and twitchy. Always get the most turns lock to lock to avoid making the steering too fast. The econo racks can be modified a little by grinding the stops back and add to the turns lock to lock. Roy has the econo and ground his stops if I remember correctly and he was getting 1.5 turns lock to lock I think.
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