Chains are heavier, and at their limit have no cushion as they stretch. Once they stretch they lose their effectiveness until adjusted. Staps are more appropriate for the job they do but chains are better than nothing.
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| Limit Straps -setup http://www.woodsbuggy.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4245 |
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| Author: | earlytimz [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Limit Straps -setup |
I broke a limit strap. I'm not crazy about the way the straps were originally installed on the buggy, so I plan to remove what's left and install chains. I've got an extra shock hole I can use on the trailing arm and there's a good place to attach the chain to the frame. I've got the hardware end of things covered, I'm just not sure what kind of angle I need to limit my arms to, or even how to determine that angle? I'm running type2 cv's bus to bus with 2x3 trailing arms. Do I put an angle finder on the axle? (Assuming the stub axle is parallel to the ground?) What's the correct procedure for doing this? What's the max and recommended angle to limit the arms too? Thanks in advance! -Steve |
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| Author: | Kyle [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limit Straps -setup |
Hey Steve you can jack the Type2's to 22 degrees IF you polish the joints. 19-20 if not. You are exactly right. Jack the car up off the ground so it is at full droop then stick you angle finder on the torsion first (just to get where its sitting, ie if you place it on the torsion and its 1 degree to the left then you subtract the one degree) then stick the angle finder on the axle and there you go. I am running 22 degrees on mine. Kyle |
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| Author: | earlytimz [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limit Straps -setup |
Thanks! Sounds easy enough. Now it's about putting theory into actions... |
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| Author: | Kyle [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limit Straps -setup |
I would just make sure you place the chain in a location that it could never bind up. A good quality limit strap quad strap should not break. I run the Beard Quad Straps. You can get them from offroad engineering. |
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| Author: | earlytimz [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limit Straps -setup |
Yeah, I've been thinking about this for a while. I decided to go with chains after I saw a few buggies over at LBL with them. They seem to work great and you know they won't break. It also gives you a way to adjust the limits let's say if I ever decided to go with 930's. Just let out another link instead of buying new longer straps. Now I might change my mind about all this once I try it, but you never really know til you do. Tell me more about these "polished" cv's... Thanks Kyle! -Steve |
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| Author: | Firebug [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limit Straps -setup |
Chains are heavier, and at their limit have no cushion as they stretch. Once they stretch they lose their effectiveness until adjusted. Staps are more appropriate for the job they do but chains are better than nothing.
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| Author: | Kyle [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limit Straps -setup |
I tend to agree with Firebuggie, I think the hard stop and the bottom would effect the suspension, but I not no expert I am sure a chain would work also (FYI (2) Limit straps beard quad straps are only 50.00). Polishing the joint is pretty simple. Just take a head porting sanding bit and slap it on the dremel, the smooth down the edges on the cage and the outter housing. You don't grind on them you just barely hit them and "polish" them. When you put it back together it should move very freely in all directions. It is basically "race prep" joints. Kyle |
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| Author: | Odyknuck [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limit Straps -setup |
You would be better off with limit straps. Chains will be hard hitting and noisey. They will also beat up everything they come in contact with. You can buy limit strap adjusters to put on one end of the upper end of the strap. I recommend them because the straps will streach. The amout of streach will be determined by the length of the strap. The longer the more streach. I was able to use 12" long straps in the rear of my Buggy. The shorter you can make them the better. |
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| Author: | Kyle [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limit Straps -setup |
Agreed Ody. I used 11's on my car. The quad straps are not supposed to stretch for a good long while so I've been told. |
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| Author: | wildcatoffroad9606 [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limit Straps -setup |
I am running chains now, but the next frame I plan on using straps. We have broke chains. I always worry that the chain link will hurt someone when it pops. Dad broke a chain link at turkey over the 4th. He is talking about straps also. Woody |
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| Author: | earlytimz [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limit Straps -setup |
Damn guys... I had my mind made up already. I already thought about this long enough. Now y'all are making me rethink my thinking. Damn. I have to argue with myself, again. I agree that straps are probably better but I already know they will break. I have (had) adjustable straps, I always thought that was a weak point. To my surprise, it didn't break at the adjuster. If your strap stretches, how much does it stretch? Is it still doing it's job after it stretches? $50 ain't pocket change in my world. (for a strap) Chains are cheap. Chain can break, use bigger/stronger chain How much can 12" of chain weigh? It won't be in contact with anything, just like straps. I'm not seeing the danger of a 12" chain breaking. At most, you'll have 11" of flopping chain, probably less. Where's it gonna go? It's still tied down at the end. Ok, it seemed like such a good idea. I may now have to go with the popular vote. If everyone says it's a bad idea, it must be. Thanks! -Steve |
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| Author: | Odyknuck [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limit Straps -setup |
Some more food for thought to help with your decision. Straps give were chains dont. In essense chains are a mechanical stops and dont give they break. As you said you would not want to hurt anybody. They will also be harder on the driveline too. As far as them not making contact with anything on the buggy, I would have to dissagree with you on that one. My straps do why not the chains. Straps will basically roll where chains when laxed go everywere depending on the buggys angle. |
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| Author: | Firebug [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limit Straps -setup |
I have seen chain cause problems,,I have not seen straps cause problems,,,others may have. Measure for straps by extending the trailing arm to point of bind then subtract one inch for stretch...Mine are about 18" long but you can probably get by with subtracting a little less for shorter straps. Maybe something like a half inch per 10 inches or something. There should be info on the web for this.
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| Author: | earlytimz [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limit Straps -setup |
Congrats, y'all have talked me out of using chains. It's for my own good, right? lol. My straps never came in contact with anything, that's why I think chains wouldn't either, at least on my buggy. I'm sure yours is different. So roughly allow an inch for stretching..? I can handle that. Is there a good place to get straps without spending a fortune? I can use a variety of lengths with my different mounting options. Is anyone else getting paid to roam the www today, or just me? I feel a little guilty... Ok, I'm over it now -Steve |
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| Author: | Kyle [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limit Straps -setup |
I don't think will break a quality quad strap. Call Offroad Engineering. They have every size made from 5-40 inches. Michael Randolph San Diego, CA 1-619-298-4455 Michael@Offroad-Engineering.com http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/beard-li ... .m20.l1116 Difference in dual and quad straps. 
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| Author: | nickschlemer [ Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limit Straps -setup |
Definately buy them off ebay. You can find them there at the best price and when you buy them ask the seller about combined shipping or if they have a deal on sets or more than one. This is how i bought mine i bought 4 and got a deal on them and i also got a deal on teh shipping having them all sent in one package at once... but i can remember were i bought them (the seller).. |
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| Author: | Roy [ Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limit Straps -setup |
McKenzies has good quality straps for a reasonable price. About 20 bucks each. |
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| Author: | RailHomie [ Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limit Straps -setup |
You can only use an agle finder the way you guys were talking about ONLY if your axles aren't going back (towards the rear of the buggy) to your wheels. Unless they are at a perfect 90 degree angle to the transmission and wheels when you look straight down on your buggy, the cv's have a "compound" angle to them, which means they have more of an angle than you'll be able to measure with an angle finder that needs gravity! You need to use something else in that case. I used a tool (no clue what it's called, but normally used in woodworking I think)that had a metal straightedge that can fold in and out of the handle with a wingnut that would hold it at any angle, and a protractor. I just used trial and error to find the spot around the axle with the biggest angle and measured it. More trial and error. I hope that wasn't too ridiculously hard to read, haha. |
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| Author: | kybuggy1 [ Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limit Straps -setup |
RailHomie wrote: You can only use an agle finder the way you guys were talking about ONLY if your axles aren't going back (towards the rear of the buggy) to your wheels. Unless they are at a perfect 90 degree angle to the transmission and wheels when you look straight down on your buggy, the cv's have a "compound" angle to them, which means they have more of an angle than you'll be able to measure with an angle finder that needs gravity! You need to use something else in that case. I used a tool (no clue what it's called, but normally used in woodworking I think)that had a metal straightedge that can fold in and out of the handle with a wingnut that would hold it at any angle, and a protractor. I just used trial and error to find the spot around the axle with the biggest angle and measured it. More trial and error. I hope that wasn't too ridiculously hard to read, haha. Makes perfect sense, but the difference in angle between "top" of axle and "top" of cv , and the tighter angle (toward the front on outer cv, rear on inner) is already figured in. If you got 2x3's or 3x3's with stock type 2's , and it shows 18* on top of the axle at full droop (sittin on the bottom stop) you're good. Might be 21* actually at the tighter spot, I dont know, but you shouldnt bind at 18 on top. Same setup but with stock 930's, look for 24*. Some say 19 and 25. Now who's is hard to read?  Larry |
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| Author: | RailHomie [ Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limit Straps -setup |
hmm...well, i can't go by any of that with my wierd, jack-leg of a combination: 3x5's with a vanagon trans shoved to the torsion, not to mention I'm using 944 CV's, but I'm sure you know the numbers on that. Alrighty then... ^^What HE said^^ |
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| Author: | Huey [ Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limit Straps -setup |
Instead of using adjustable limit straps just make a steel plate with about 6 holes spaced 1/2" apart. Now all you have to do is buy straps that hit close to the shortest hole and then move to a different hole as the straps stretch. It worked for me. |
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| Author: | earlytimz [ Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limit Straps -setup |
Good idea, I've actually been thinking of something like that. Do you have any pictures of your setup? I'm not to proud to steal someone else's idea. Especially if it's a good one! |
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| Author: | RailHomie [ Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Limit Straps -setup |
I've seen a lot of people use threaded clevises to mount the tops side of the strap too. I think you can see it in Roy's BOTM pictures, and also here: http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/Limit-Straps-p-1-c-747.html Kinda expensive, but I'm sure you could find a cheaper source that isn't offroad oriented. 
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