Been too busy fluffing the couch for loose change... figured if i start saving now, i could have it this time nexy year
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| New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... http://www.woodsbuggy.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17697 |
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| Author: | lngtrvl2332 [ Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... |
I saw in Hot VW's this month that moore parts is going to be offering a new design front beam from a company called JM Pro. The beam is similar to current stuff in appearance, but the arms are supported on the inside and outside. They look very beefy. Come in lengths up to 6" longer. And the spindles use uniballs and a bolt on snout so you can run any style bearing you want (even 2" hollow spindle). |
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| Author: | lngtrvl2332 [ Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... |
JM Pro Products : Complete Beam Assemblies - Dune Buggy Parts, Sandrail Parts, VW Parts - MooreParts.com http://www.mooreparts.com/JM-Pro-Produc ... ssemblies/ |
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| Author: | lngtrvl2332 [ Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... |
18" travel front beam with no bs brass bushings to get all wobbly and no comments... |
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| Author: | reno2165 [ Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... |
Been too busy fluffing the couch for loose change... figured if i start saving now, i could have it this time nexy year
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| Author: | MadMike [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... |
For $2100.00 I'll sell you one of my complete front ends, +6" beam, 4x1 arms and 3"drop spindles. Then I'll throw in a set of torsion eliminators AND a set of 3x3 rear arms for free. |
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| Author: | Red Barron [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... |
Mike your killing me- Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | lngtrvl2332 [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... |
Mike did you look at that beam design from the rear. It has some pretty nice reinforcement to go with that double shear. They also say on the moore parts website that they offer those style arms for standard style beams. And I believe they say that their spindles will work with any style arm. I like the uniball spindles myself. With all the street time mine gets, The bushing beams chew tires like mad after 1 or 2 weekends in the trails. |
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| Author: | MadMike [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... |
Yeah, I saw this set up last year, the way the arms are double sheared is cool and all but the weak link is still the connection between the arms and the spindle. Those uni-ball's aren't all that they are made out to be and wear out kinda fast. Just seems to be a bunch of $$ to try something different. Having said that, I have no first hand knowledge whether or not it's any good and I'm basing my opinion on my experience with uni-ball's. |
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| Author: | Red Barron [ Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... |
Uni balls are great for a purpose. I don't see guys running them on desert race cars or on ultra 4 cars so I'm with Mike on this one. I have seen the style of beam and arm in race cars of yesteryear Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | lngtrvl2332 [ Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... |
I am not trying to argue with anyone, so I guess I am missing something. What is weak about them? It looks to be built like a heim joint to me. My heim joint tie rods are the only thing on my front end that I haven't rebuilt in over 5 years. Almost every a arm car suspension I have seen (desert racer or sand car) runs 1 if not 2 uniballs for the front spindle. Every ultra 4 truck I found with IFS is running them. And all the best reviewed truck pre runner suspension kits are using them. Rock bouncers and 4 link crawlers use them. All heavier vehicles than we are running. |
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| Author: | RaceBugg1098 [ Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... |
the spindles look weak to me. I wouldn't change a thing with my foddrill/woods front end on my race car. if I ever hit anything hard enough to bend either my arms or spindles, well that will be the least of my problems!!! the rest of the buggy would be scrap 
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| Author: | Odyknuck [ Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... |
Uniballs are plenty strong however, unless you can seal them like a ball joint they will ware out in no time at all. I have them on my commander and have had nothing but issues! I even changed out the top "A" arms with the Ballistic uniball's that are an 1 1/2" in dimeter and harded to 60 rockwell and still without a way to seal them from the dirt, they just don't last. |
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| Author: | lngtrvl2332 [ Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... |
Thanks Ody. I appreciate the explanation. Do you have a rough "hours of use before replacement" estimate? How many times have you already changed them on your commander? I have to rebuild my spindles after every trip if I don't want them chewing tires as it is. I honestly figured buying uniballs has to be cheaper or at least easier than $150 plus shipping on current spindles. I will agree with everybody. The strength of my current front end is awesome for what it gets put through off road. And stuff being a little weebly wobbly in the trails is fine. Just not on the street. That is all I am looking to improve on. Even cheap tires AREN'T CHEAP.... HAHAHAHA |
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| Author: | RaceBugg1098 [ Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... |
lngtrvl2332 wrote: Thanks Ody. I appreciate the explanation. Do you have a rough "hours of use before replacement" estimate? How many times have you already changed them on your commander? I have to rebuild my spindles after every trip if I don't want them chewing tires as it is. I honestly figured buying uniballs has to be cheaper or at least easier than $150 plus shipping on current spindles. I will agree with everybody. The strength of my current front end is awesome for what it gets put through off road. And stuff being a little weebly wobbly in the trails is fine. Just not on the street. That is all I am looking to improve on. Even cheap tires AREN'T CHEAP.... HAHAHAHA are you running tweed spindles? I had a pair of those years ago, same problem. woods or foddrills wont do that. at least not for years and years. I was referring to the uprights on the spindles being weak. they look like they would bend between the uni balls. maybe its just the picture... |
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| Author: | lngtrvl2332 [ Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... |
Yes. The tweeds are what i am running. I have heard people say the foddrill arms and spindles were better but I was leary to spend 1.5x the cost of the tweeds to find out they do the same thing. |
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| Author: | MadMike [ Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... |
The spindles your running, are they bushing or bearing for the king pin? I know that the earlier Tweed stuff was using brass king pin bushings that didn't last at all. IF that's the case they can be up graded to use bearings. As far as who made them, I don't think Woods and Foddrill are making anything and different than what Tweeds' is making as far as design. I would guess that at least Foddrill is using different material to build theirs but nothing that would make there's wear parts any differently than anyone elses. |
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| Author: | RaceBugg1098 [ Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... |
I had the brass bushing tweed spindles. I converted them to bearings. they lasted about 1/2 of my first ever race and they self destructed. I have never even had to tighten the link pins on my foddrills in 7 years. not sure what all they do different, but there is a difference. a big one. The woods spindles on my other buggy are much older and still tight as new. |
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| Author: | lngtrvl2332 [ Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... |
Yeah. They said I had the bearing ones. Pacific Customs has always been honest with me so I am sure they are. But yes. Mine have never failed as Racebugg described, but I did give them a motto. Tweeds Spindles.... Worn in a weekend.... |
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| Author: | MadMike [ Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... |
I'm still not following the correlation between the various makers and how fast they wear out parts. Could it be the parts being used to rebuild them are bad or not of the same quality as the original parts? You could own Foddrill spindles and throw in the cheapest bearings you can find, and they are going to loosen up fast. Install good bearings and things "should" last, don't care who made them, myself included. I'm just trying to find out why things wear out. Is it something in the way things are made or is it more of how things are used and/or something with the quality of replacement parts? If it's something in the way things are made, I want to know about it. If you get your stuff wet a bunch and you don't grease the crap out of them, they will fail quick. With my spindles, and I'm the only one doing it, I have a seal kit that seals the king pin bearings and so far it seems to be working real well. |
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| Author: | lngtrvl2332 [ Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... |
Mike. I understand your argument. If I had an answer I wouldn't be looking at new front ends and reinventing the wheel. I have had 3 sets. First set was bushing and crap. Sold them needing rebuilt and bought needle bearing versions. Got all wobbly again and it was gonna be 3 week turn around so I bought ANOTHER new set since I had a trip in 2 weeks. Same sh#t different day. Used good marine grade grease and still worn in a weekend. Now second rebuilt set is wobbly again as well. I know my ride is heavy so I try not to immediately blame the manufacturer, but a score car weighs in close to my car and runs the same front end and not at 15mph through the woods. Needless to say I have plenty of wobbly emergency spindles.... |
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| Author: | lngtrvl2332 [ Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... |
How often do you guys grease your spindles? I usually grease mine on Friday morning before weekend trip and again on sunday after cleaning up or once every 2 weeks or so on the street. How much are your arms and spindles again mike? |
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| Author: | MadMike [ Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... |
lngtrvl2332 wrote: Mike. I understand your argument. If I had an answer I wouldn't be looking at new front ends and reinventing the wheel. I have had 3 sets. First set was bushing and crap. Sold them needing rebuilt and bought needle bearing versions. Got all wobbly again and it was gonna be 3 week turn around so I bought ANOTHER new set since I had a trip in 2 weeks. Same sh#t different day. Used good marine grade grease and still worn in a weekend. Now second rebuilt set is wobbly again as well. I know my ride is heavy so I try not to immediately blame the manufacturer, but a score car weighs in close to my car and runs the same front end and not at 15mph through the woods. Needless to say I have plenty of wobbly emergency spindles.... Have you ever had the chance to wiggle the front end of a SCORE car after a long race? Yeah, neither have I, but I think I'm safe to say that after a long race weekend, their $hit is wore out too. lngtrvl2332 wrote: How often do you guys grease your spindles? I usually grease mine on Friday morning before weekend trip and again on sunday after cleaning up or once every 2 weeks or so on the street. How much are your arms and spindles again mike? I grease my stuff before it comes off the trailer, and every time it gets back to the trailer. Street, there's your problem right there. Keep it off the street, your tire life will triple. I like making parts, not near as much as I like SELLING parts. I don't think you need new arms and spindles, just better rebuild parts and maybe a seal kit or two. The last thing could be how your setting up your arms and spindles after a rebuild. If your not measuring stuff when you rebuild, you are adding to the premature wear. Things I think I think. |
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| Author: | RaceBugg1098 [ Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... |
I would have to say the tolerences are much tighter in the $$ spindles than in tweeds. This isn't just me talking. I have several buddies that will tell you the exact same thing. My race buggy may not be a SCORE buggy, but it easily has up over 50 hardcore race hours on the front end and is still tight as the day it was new (zero slop). I got my woods spindles (on my 4 seater) used and I bet they had not seen grease in YEARS. I did replace the link pins and bushings, but the king pins were and still are tight. I know what your saying MIke, but it is 100% true. even the smallest almost un feelable amount of slop will start to beat itself up and into a bunch of slop. Maybe the 7/8" link pins help. They never get out of adjustment either like the regular pins do. |
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| Author: | jimp [ Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... |
John Deere Multi-Purpose HD Lithium Complex Grease or John Deere Moly High Temperature EP Grease. http://manuals.deere.com/cceomview/OMTC ... 5_L08.html |
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| Author: | lngtrvl2332 [ Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Front Beam from JM Pro and Moore Parts ... |
Sounds like I need to get the next set from foddrill. I ran into someone local who has a buggy he races and drives at cruise night. He has foddrill stuff. I asked him if he has any issues and he said NEVER just like racebugg. Mike, I don't pay for a pro alignment, but when the spindles are tight I can get 2 seasons of street out of a set of road tires. That is easily 7-10k miles. As far as setup. I put the arms at about ride height. Slide the linkpins in the arms as far as they will go without forcing stuff to be misaligned and use the alignment shims to take up the rest. No one ever showed me how to setup a beam front end or told me different. I was the first in my group to get into buggies. I was the monkey ready to be shot into space. If anyone can tell me a better or correct way or what I am doing wrong I am all ears. |
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