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| Axle angle http://www.woodsbuggy.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17557 |
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| Author: | Psycho Alpha [ Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Axle angle |
I want to move engine and transaxle back 10" on my new frame to get more rear bias. Currently my trans flanges and stub axles are in line, no back angle as most buggys have. My question is does anyone see any problems with front angle on axles? Here is pic of buggy now. I want to move transaxle back about 10"  "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet."--Abraham Lincoln |
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| Author: | havnot [ Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Axle angle |
My concern would be how the axle would plunge with the drive cv that far behind the wheel cv the axle length will change drastically through suspension travel I may be wrong though someone will correct me if I am |
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| Author: | Psycho Alpha [ Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Axle angle |
havnot wrote: My concern would be how the axle would plunge with the drive cv that far behind the wheel cv the axle length will change drastically through suspension travel I may be wrong though someone will correct me if I am That was my thinking when I originally built this frame. I wanted to be farther back but had no way to check it. I just unbolted the shock and cycled the susp full bump to full droop. I took measurements and it looks like the is actually less distance between flange and stub at the theoretical 10" back position. Not sure about cv angle yet "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet."--Abraham Lincoln |
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| Author: | MadMike [ Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Axle angle |
havnot wrote: My concern would be how the axle would plunge with the drive cv that far behind the wheel cv the axle length will change drastically through suspension travel I may be wrong though someone will correct me if I am Plunge is plunge, the action is the same either direction, that's where the similarities end. With back plunge the arc of the axle and the arc of the arm are in the same direction, towards the back of the car. Doing as you suggest would cause the opposite effect. The arc of the arm would be as it was, towards the rear. The axle arc, because the drive CV is behind the driven CV it is working in the opposite direction, towards the front of the car, against the grain if you will. I'm thinking, not such a good idea. Why such a dramatic change?? What are your axle weights, front and rear with you in the car?? If I'm reading things right your car is light in the rear, not allowing you to get hooked up with the wheel speed. Am I Close? |
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| Author: | Psycho Alpha [ Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Axle angle |
Buggy bias is 30/70 not far off most buggies but it seems to transfer different than a rear engine setup. I think it works good but could be better and I would like to get more length to my chain. I've never really had frontend ever get light...... "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet."--Abraham Lincoln |
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| Author: | Psycho Alpha [ Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Axle angle |
The artic cat wildcats like odys have the rear axle angled foward some, that's the only time I've seen that. "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet."--Abraham Lincoln |
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| Author: | MadMike [ Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Axle angle |
[quote="Psycho Alpha"]The artic cat wildcats like odys have the rear axle angled foward some, that's the only time I've seen that. /quote] I think Ody would agree when I say Just because an Arctic Cat engineer thunk it up, don't make it right, or even close to being right. |
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| Author: | Psycho Alpha [ Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Axle angle |
MadMike wrote: Psycho Alpha wrote: The artic cat wildcats like odys have the rear axle angled foward some, that's the only time I've seen that. I think Ody would agree when I say Just because an Arctic Cat engineer thunk it up, don't make it right, or even close to being right./quote] I'll agree with that statement  "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet."--Abraham Lincoln |
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| Author: | 2800passat [ Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Axle angle |
OMG that pic is the basic layout of the Passat except I have a 175 hp v6. So all you butt wipes that hate me can KMA. |
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| Author: | 2800passat [ Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Axle angle |
Oh. And people talk about bias. In the Air Force we called it CG Center of Gravity. Run some bolted tires and anything will walk the planet. |
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| Author: | 2800passat [ Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Axle angle |
Phyco alpha. I love yer set up. |
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| Author: | 2800passat [ Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Axle angle |
Yeah I just came in from riding and I am full of bverages. I want to say something to yanks. Yall built the best cars and made some of us love our cars more than our wives. I've seen the doom of Detroit. I know yall are young, but let's take our country back. In all industrial fields. |
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| Author: | PhillipM [ Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Axle angle |
If it's 70/30 the same as most buggies, and yet your other ones get more rear grip, then either most are running more than 70/30, or your rear trailing pivot/shock settings are the issue, no? 
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| Author: | Psycho Alpha [ Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Axle angle |
PhillipM wrote: If it's 70/30 the same as most buggies, and yet your other ones get more rear grip, then either most are running more than 70/30, or your rear trailing pivot/shock settings are the issue, no? My thinking on this is...... Sitting on a flat surface it doesn't matter what side of axle line rear weight is placed to get 70. The pivot point being the rear tire as you climb a hill. All of my weight is on front side of pivot. A conventional buggy has the weight behind said point, so it transfers different. Make any sense??????? "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet."--Abraham Lincoln |
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| Author: | PhillipM [ Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Axle angle |
No Weight transfer is weight transfer, it's only dependent on CoG height, wheelbase and acceleration rate. If you hang more weight out of the rear then to keep your 70/30 you would end up with more shifting weight up front too... So, unless the weight balance isn't the 70/30 you were aiming for, it's probably a geometery or suspension issue. Tried lifting the rear of the car a little and see if it'll bite a bit more with the extra anti-squat? |
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| Author: | Psycho Alpha [ Thu Jan 01, 2015 5:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Axle angle |
I've never taking a physics course so my thinking maybe off, but I do know I need more weight in the rear of new build. I will be trying a small scale experiment on my sons pinewood derby cars this year to test my theory "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet."--Abraham Lincoln |
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| Author: | PhillipM [ Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Axle angle |
One question, given the low weight of the motor in there, I assume the buggy is rather lighter than previous ones? If so, is the weight of the driver and passenger having too much effect on shifting weight forwards - or did you weigh it with ballast in for that? |
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| Author: | Psycho Alpha [ Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Axle angle |
Buggy weights 1300lbs so 5-800lbs less than most 2 seat buggys. I didn't take passengers into account when setting it up or weighing it originally. I think my seating position is hurting me also. I plan on moving seats back 12" too. Thanks for your input "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet."--Abraham Lincoln |
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| Author: | PhillipM [ Thu Jan 01, 2015 12:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Axle angle |
Sounds like that's the issue then, is there nothing else up front you can shift backwards rather than the transmission? You're going to end up plunge limited for travel otherwise. |
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| Author: | Psycho Alpha [ Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Axle angle |
Radiator and battery that's about it  "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet."--Abraham Lincoln |
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| Author: | Herbie53 [ Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Axle angle |
If your suspension is working well now, just need more weight transfer, I would move what I could to the rear - battery, radiator, fuel tank. The more front to rear angle you put on the joints, the less you have to move up and down and will lose wheel travel. Moving the biggest thing in the buggy, namely the driver and passenger will make the most difference. A "typical" AC buggy probably has more like a 20/80 weight distribution. In my younger days I could pick up and move the front end of most buggies with stock trailing arms, so that was likely no more than 200lb. on a 1300-1400 buggy. Add 3" longer arms and that probably moved to 250/1150, which is 18/82. If you move the engine/transaxle, I wouldn't move it over 2". BTW, what engine/trans combo is that? Looks really neat and simple, and gearing can be changed by the chain and sprockets. |
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| Author: | Psycho Alpha [ Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Axle angle |
Herbie53 wrote: If your suspension is working well now, just need more weight transfer, I would move what I could to the rear - battery, radiator, fuel tank. The more front to rear angle you put on the joints, the less you have to move up and down and will lose wheel travel. Moving the biggest thing in the buggy, namely the driver and passenger will make the most difference. A "typical" AC buggy probably has more like a 20/80 weight distribution. In my younger days I could pick up and move the front end of most buggies with stock trailing arms, so that was likely no more than 200lb. on a 1300-1400 buggy. Add 3" longer arms and that probably moved to 250/1150, which is 18/82. If you move the engine/transaxle, I wouldn't move it over 2". BTW, what engine/trans combo is that? Looks really neat and simple, and gearing can be changed by the chain and sprockets. Thanks The engine is from a 2006 GSXR 750cc sportbike,. The transaxle is made by Jeffco. I have a couple of different sprocket set up, depending if I want to creep around or haul ass "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet."--Abraham Lincoln |
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