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Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
http://www.woodsbuggy.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16267		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  UncleJerm76 [ Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
New buggy owner here, need to either replace my urethane bushings or go back to needle bearings (leaning towards the needle bearings). Previous owner tightened the bushings down so much they cracked. Just curious what some other thru rod setups look like - anyone running a thru rod with needle bearings?

My Setup:
Attachment:
1124680.jpg
1124680.jpg [ 183.26 KiB | Viewed 11078 times ]


After a lot of research I guess my setup is missing the pich nuts and teflon washers too.
Attachment:
ac401031_2.jpg
ac401031_2.jpg [ 190.32 KiB | Viewed 11078 times ]
Author:  giveitagallon [ Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
i would run the white bushings and just snug them , they will live a long happy life ! 8) on mine i welded the nut with a washer behind it on one side and the other i doubled nutted it with a metal washer behind . a buddy was having issues with the clamp style not holding so i just followed his wisdom .... lol
Author:  giveitagallon [ Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
Attachment:
ImageUploadedByWoodsBuggy1383586794.544702.jpg [355.13 KiB]
Downloaded 170 times



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Author:  UncleJerm76 [ Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
giveitagallon wrote:
Attachment:
ImageUploadedByWoodsBuggy1383586794.544702.jpg



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Nice looking buggy!
1) Is the white a Delrin bushing or something — Would prefer to have black so it blends in, is that available?
2) Where are your grease fittings?
Author:  MadMike [ Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
You can't run aftermarket arms with needle bearings. The main pivot is not hardened and the needle bearing would kill the arm pivot fast.
Author:  UncleJerm76 [ Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
MadMike wrote:
You can't run aftermarket arms with needle bearings. The main pivot is not hardened and the needle bearing would kill the arm pivot fast.


I can't find any info on what you are saying but I've decided to just replace the bushings this time, not worth possibly ruining an expensive set of arms.

Which brings up a new issue... Im embarrassed to say this, but I can't get the wheel off the spindle??? I don't have a clue what could be holding it on. I can pull it about 3/4" and then something pulls it right back? After the video I tugged harder and harder until it was literally scooting the front of my buggy towards me. He's a vid...
http://youtu.be/RzDi9mMhHFo


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Author:  NRIbuggys [ Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
Looks like the bearing is hangin up


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Author:  UncleJerm76 [ Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
NRIbuggys wrote:
Looks like the bearing is hangin up


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It's odd, I've never had that happen, even more odd is the passenger side is identical - stops after 3/4" and then springs back! Should I just strap it to my truck and slowly pull it? Any suggestions? Need wheels off to get the thru rods and arms out to replace bushings.


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Author:  NRIbuggys [ Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
I'd rig something up where you could give it a few good snatches and see


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Author:  davehix [ Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
Try to get behind it and get seal out and it should come off then you can work on getting bearing off.
Author:  lpb [ Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
if you are just replacing bushings turn your front wheels , pull your thru rods, jack it up, pull arms and complete assy. out leaving it all together. reassymble in revers order. :)
Author:  UncleJerm76 [ Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
lpb wrote:
if you are just replacing bushings turn your front wheels , pull your thru rods, jack it up, pull arms and complete assy. out leaving it all together. reassymble in revers order. :)


lpb - I tried this first before removing the wheels. At full lock the thru rod will not clear the tire.


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Author:  giveitagallon [ Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
I have never messed with spindle mounts but that's some crazy stuff their . Did you assemble it originally ?
I have seen seals hold pretty good but I'm sure you have been yanking on it pretty good .
Are spindle mounts set up ( say ) like a old s10 ? If so maybe take the outer bearing off and the put the nut back on and then use the wheel like a slide hammer push in and yank out .
I remember when I used to work on cars that's how I would get the seal out of its socket to change out the rotor .
Author:  RaceBugg1098 [ Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
UncleJerm76 wrote:
New buggy owner here, need to either replace my urethane bushings or go back to needle bearings (leaning towards the needle bearings). Previous owner tightened the bushings down so much they cracked. Just curious what some other thru rod setups look like - anyone running a thru rod with needle bearings?

My Setup:
Attachment:
1124680.jpg


After a lot of research I guess my setup is missing the pich nuts and teflon washers too.
Attachment:
ac401031_2.jpg

I run blue bushings (not sure who makes them, got from mckenzies) they dont crack as easy as the white saco ones. Then I cut the "spacer" off and turn down some aluminum spacers. For a thru-rod I just use a piece of grade 8 all thread with a nut welded on one end and 2 thin nuts on the other and plain old sae flat washers under them. everything else I tried just lead to issues down the road.
Author:  UncleJerm76 [ Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
RaceBugg1098 wrote:
UncleJerm76 wrote:
New buggy owner here, need to either replace my urethane bushings or go back to needle bearings (leaning towards the needle bearings). Previous owner tightened the bushings down so much they cracked. Just curious what some other thru rod setups look like - anyone running a thru rod with needle bearings?

My Setup:
Attachment:
1124680.jpg


After a lot of research I guess my setup is missing the pich nuts and teflon washers too.
Attachment:
ac401031_2.jpg

I run blue bushings (not sure who makes them, got from mckenzies) they dont crack as easy as the white saco ones. Then I cut the "spacer" off and turn down some aluminum spacers. For a thru-rod I just use a piece of grade 8 all thread with a nut welded on one end and 2 thin nuts on the other and plain old sae flat washers under them. everything else I tried just lead to issues down the road.


Thanks RaceBugg, unfortunately I already ordered all my stuff. Found the black urethane bushings i was looking for here:http://www.socalautoparts.com/product_info.php/bugpack-trailing-arm-bushings-bug-ghia-inner-outer-bushings-black-urethane-p-13338. Sent them what I had and they said they will fit. Now if I can just get the wheels off the spindles!

Im going to use thread lock on everything and see how it goes. But I glad you posted because if I start having issues I will try your method. How about a close up of those aluminum spacers?


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Author:  UncleJerm76 [ Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
Using three ratchet straps I pulled from the center of the wheel. I pulled so much that I was afraid I was going to bend the trailing arms or the axle beam. Any other ideas on what might be holding it on there? The pinch bolt is on just the end of the spindle in case the wheel popped free (I didn't want it shooting across my garage).
Attachment:
ImageUploadedByWoodsBuggy1383830882.672377.jpg
ImageUploadedByWoodsBuggy1383830882.672377.jpg [ 78.05 KiB | Viewed 10251 times ]



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Author:  Psycho Alpha [ Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
I would try scissor jack or bottle jack between arm and rim.


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Author:  MadMike [ Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
Urethane bushings aren't the best choice for a coil over or airshock suspension, too much compliance in the material. That's why it needed to be tightened all the time.

Try throwing some heat at the inner bearing, your going to need to replace all the bearings and seal anyway. Heat it up and let it cool several times it should come loose. Try a block of wood between the frame and the inside of the wheel behind the beam. Turn into the block and use a dead drop soft face hammer on the front side.
Author:  MadMike [ Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
This is how I do mine. 1/4" brass and locking threaded shaft collar.
Image
Author:  UncleJerm76 [ Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
MadMike wrote:
This is how I do mine. 1/4" brass and locking threaded shaft collar.
Image


Thanks MadMike that's almost exactly the new parts i have now (I'm just waiting on my bushings to get here). But yours is a really clean looking setup with the brass collars - I dig it. ...only thing is - and I'm sure its fine like it is ... but I'd have to add a nylon lock nut on the end with loctite just for POM insurance. In any case - very nice job.


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Author:  UncleJerm76 [ Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
Just thought I owed it to you guys who replied trying to help me get my wheel off - to let you know that I was able to get them off today.

My dad and my cousin (who is to blame for giving me the woodsbuggy-bug) came over and we pulled the whole spindle off the arms with the wheel still attached. Then put it on a trailer v-frame and found a bolt small enough to sit in the dimple on the end of the spindle. Then started lightly hitting with a 5lb sledge hammer harder and harder until the spindle fell out the bottom of the V frame. Repeated on passenger side.

I have combo spindles and the inner bearing on both left and right wheels had come apart in the wheel somehow? But they spun smooth as butter, would never know it! Also I guess somewhere in those inner bearings is a spring??? (Ill try to post pics tomorrow) but that must have been what was pulling the wheel back in the video I posted earlier.

All the new parts are here except thru rod bushings - they are still 7 days out. Appreciate all the help guys, there are some sweet lookin buggies here - if you got something different keep those thru rod pics comin!


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Author:  PhillipM [ Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
Mine have a recess on the ends with needle thrust bearings in, then a nylock nut up against them and a cap over the top to keep the shit out.
Author:  UncleJerm76 [ Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
PhillipM wrote:
Mine have a recess on the ends with needle thrust bearings in, then a nylock nut up against them and a cap over the top to keep the shit out.

Since buying my urethane bushings I've found several documents and professional race teams that use through rods with needle bearings. I will go this route when/if my urethane bushings wear out.

Phillip can you please post pics of your setup?


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Author:  PhillipM [ Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
Yeah, I'll get some when I get chance, this is the best I have at the moment:

Image

The tube that goes into the beam has an insert pressed in about halfway down where the arm tube connects, and extends into the beam a inch or so - it's welded in - basically it takes all the kinking/compression force from the arm without resorting to really thick beam tubes, etc, to keep the weight down.

A needle bearing butts up against that with hardened washers to run on, and a nylock nut on the through rod keeps it all snug.
A slather of grease in the end of the tube keeps it all lubricated and a plastic tube cap clips in the end to keep the water out.
Author:  Rick [ Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Show me your front axle beam thru rod setup
PhillipM wrote:
Yeah, I'll get some when I get chance, this is the best I have at the moment:

Image

The tube that goes into the beam has an insert pressed in about halfway down where the arm tube connects, and extends into the beam a inch or so - it's welded in - basically it takes all the kinking/compression force from the arm without resorting to really thick beam tubes, etc, to keep the weight down.

A needle bearing butts up against that with hardened washers to run on, and a nylock nut on the through rod keeps it all snug.
A slather of grease in the end of the tube keeps it all lubricated and a plastic tube cap clips in the end to keep the water out.

There is no way i could work in a dirt floor environment, hell i lose everything on concrete :oops:
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