I know this will prolly fall on biased ears, but has anyone ever seen a swing with bags? Do bags replace the need for torsion bars or do they just augment? I imagine there would be some flexing of the airbag due to the swing but they say they can handle quite a bit. Not to mention I don't see why it couldn't be mounted like the shocks...
just fishin for ideas.. not opinions about SA's

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An air bag is a spring. You can use them where ever you need a spring. If you get the correct size you can remove the bars. Still need shocks to slow the spring down.

Before you go thru all the trouble to bag a Swing axel setup I would really consider dumping the the swing axel setup into a garabage bag and run an IRS. Been there done that. The different between the two suspensions is night and day.

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Water cooled Dry Sumped Subaru Powered Turbo Charged Fuel Injected 2500CC Tank. Oh Rah! He who dies with the most Toys not only wins, He also wears them out!

I can't begin to tell you how bad an idea this is. First your putting a ton of weight on the back with the Government Motors quad 4, first bad idea. Then you have a swing axle back there that is borderline at BEST for off road, second bad idea. Then you want to add air bags to this mess, third bad idea.
I would strongly suggest loosing the boat anchor motor in exchange for anything lighter and the flipper axle for a IRS set-up. Then talk about air bags.

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MadMike, I would agree with all your statements for a woods buggy/ off roader.

From some of his comments in his other threads, I think this guy is trying to build a trail/ street buggy with some Detroit Iron. For a started car I would just put some inexpensive truck air shocks on it and run it until you save enough money to build a car more up to playing in the woods and climbing hills.

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Water Cooled Consortium, Chairman of the Build (Former AC purist)

Yeah we don't have crazy hills here in Michigan. Like I tried to convey originally going into this topic, I didn't figure it was a good idea by southern woodsbuggy standards but I had to ask cuz I was curious . In reality I'm thinking I prolly shouldn't even be bothering you guys on this forum. The difference between most of you and myself is similar to Steven Hawking trying to have a technical discussion with a high school Science honors student. Well maybe not that bad. Just saying a lot of the things you guys do is for full on race situations and you've been doing it a long time. I'd like to approach that but in reality there's just no way my buggy will have the opportunity. I don't have people in my immediate area who do this stuff that I can compare to. I do a ton of research before ask a question but I find most of this stuff comes down to one person's opinion compared to another and equal parts of each. Obviously there's a lot of people who have tons of time and money to be trolling buggy forums knocking what other people have managed to put together. I'm definitely not going to tell someone else that their buggy is inferior. Maybe my problem is I should just do my own thing regardless because I obviously don't know what the hell I'm doing. We'll see. Despite your judgement, I'm proud of what I built because I have no one showing me what to do. It'll always be a work in progress. I can't just pour money into it all at once and have what everyone else has. It's gonna get what I can manage too afford ATM. Maybe it costs more in the long run. So what? All I know is I'm tired of waiting to have money for everything and the thing sitting in the garage useless. If that bothers you and you want to act like everybody needs to have the same setup or it's not gonna work then I'm done listening to your comments.

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Orange, Some of the guys on here are very honest and they don't understand your desire to get it on the road for some wind in your hair or in my case over my head. Don't get discouraged as there are guys with full race, full hill climb, show cars, JYD's and the project to each his own. Make it your own and make no apologizes.

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Water Cooled Consortium, Chairman of the Build (Former AC purist)

No it's ok. If anything I just get frustrated because I want it to do everything but it's just not gonna happen for me. Which is why I'm trying to make the best of it.

I don't blame Mike for thinking how he does. I understand it and seen it coming. just not why people can't think out of their respective boxes.

Truth be told, this buggy (if running lol) will be pulled behind my restored 1980 Itasca Suncruiser motorhome and will be our wheels when camping. We will use it to for all the things people do when they're camping including finding two tracks and having a little off road adventure which usually involves a Speed Beagle in the rumble seat. My friends love Silver lake sand dunes and I will prolly tool around there, but it won't be going near 'test hill'. I'll be lucky if my tires even hook up! The dunes aren't real fun in my opinion. Too rough for my beatup back. So I guess I just like the wind in my hair too. If I need to feel crazy I get on my sportbikes. (my 1st priority money pits)

And my engine is heavy.(er). So I was thinking bags may be a way to bring the ride height up if I have that problem. I'm not even sure how that'll work out yet. Sits about an inch lower since the motor is in.

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Your on track , let's see a built woodsbuggy hang with a sandrail !
It's not going to happen !!!! Or vise versa on their own stomping ground .
Why do sand guys still run swing arms and arms ,
Well why do woodsbuggys still run IRS and straight beams ?

So let me ask sandrails what are the benefits they see off the swing axle setup ?

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Theirs no replacement for displacement !

I had that problem but getting to old to ride like that anymore....... So I'm building a woodsbuggy with GSXR engine! Best of both worlds!

Giveitgallons, you couldn't be more right. A sand rail is built with lots of horse power (usually a WC) with lots of wheel travel. A woods buggy is a short wheel base light as possible pocket rocket. They are similar in the dune/ hill climbing only in that you need lots of wheel speed.

Much like a desert race truck and a short course truck don't do well when you try to cross over. Trust me I built my wagon in Florida for high speed rough sandy terrain. I have limits to what I can do in the woods but I have a great time riding with you guys and have plans to build a 2 seat woods buggy for hard core climbing.

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Water Cooled Consortium, Chairman of the Build (Former AC purist)

Don't be hard on yourself. The coolest thing about buggies is they are all unique and buggy people are very approachable about how and why they choose to do what they do to them. I suspect the majority here are on budgets and all own works in progress. When your priorities are right you feed and clothe the kids first ,that is why most of us have what we do and not the best of the best. Lastly, you asked for other's opinions and they obliged.

I wanted to do the same but I hadn't seen a large scale buggy with a decent drivetrain yet... until I went to Appletree last weekend for my gas tank. There it was. And talk about light. It's hard to believe! I wouldn't mind making a one seater ZX14 when I grow up.

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See this is where I went wrong. I never perceived woods buggies being this way. I envisioned more of a all-purpose style built to hit a tree occasionally. But it always makes sense to be light as possible when you can. I always end up building on the heavy side for some reason.
Most of the places I've went so far involved 50/50 sandy twisty trails and hard pack with an occasional mud puddle. If you're lucky you find a hill and it's not only wide enough for dirt bikes. Most of what I've seen comes from dirt biking. I'm sure there's places I've yet to find that are different/better. Obviously there aren't any people chiming in here that are from my neck of the woods. But I was always fighting a motor that was about to die. Never had an opportunity to contemplate how well my suspension was setup and whatnot. I was just trying to get back before the motor decided to ice up. LOL dang Weber Progressive!

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Hmmm! Time for a reality check OP. No one is trying to tell you to build the biggest baddest Buggy. What we are doing, is sharing what works and does not work based on our actual experiences , no more no less. We are looking out for your best interest as we have with many newbies that have come before you. Why not learn from our mistakes rather than just repeat them. The bottom line is this is your toy and we want you to be happy with it and not have to do it over at twice the cost and aggravation when you discover the dissapointment with it's performance.

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Water cooled Dry Sumped Subaru Powered Turbo Charged Fuel Injected 2500CC Tank. Oh Rah! He who dies with the most Toys not only wins, He also wears them out!

A true woodsbuggy will not climb like a competition buggy .
A hillclimb buggy will not last as long in the woods as a woodsbuggy . The definition to me of a woodsbuggy is a buggy build to cover all aspects of the woods .
A good climber
Comftable
Smooth
Extreme duty suspension to handle long term beating with minimum issues .
Haul beer
Be able to Beat up period and withstand the abuse period .
Competition buggy
Light weight
Nimble
Big engine
Ext
Needless to say a woodsbuggy won't climb like a comp buggy
And a comp buggy won't last in the woods like a woodsbuggy .
This is just my opinion , either way everyone has there own style buggy they like any they both do great in the woods pros and cons on both .

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Theirs no replacement for displacement !

I couldn't have said this any better if I had to.




This is why I'm getting more and more hesitant to help folks out here anymore. Someone asks for advice, you give sound, solid, based on first hand experience advice. Next thing you know I'm (we are) making fun of them or ridiculing them. If you don't want advise, don't ask for it. And the "box" I think in, has 39 years of building experience.

To get back to your original question. I don't think there is enough room to install a set of air bags on the end of a swing axle and still clear the wheel, shock(s) and frame. The bag would need to be way bigger in length and diameter than what we are using to work. The bags we are using have a stroke of about 9", I believe the wheel travel on a swing axle is a little more than that so a larger bag would be needed. The cover tube of the swing axle can't support the weight of the car, so mounting them on the tube closer to the trans is out of the question. So I'm going to say air bagging a swing axle is not doable.

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Qrange,
Maybe you can fab a mount to come off you spring plate to use bags.
Just not not much room for them and a shock.
If all you are trying to do is support the extra weight maybe just get some air shocks?
I'm in Fl. and don't do much hill climbing. Haven't seen any hill where I ride.
I am changing my supension to run through rough sandy terrain at a good clip.
I usually travel down jeep trails. All thou I don't have many 4x4 keeping up with me.
I'm thinking about call my style of a buggy a "Trail Buggy"

Any way, try the bags. They don't cost much and if they don't work just save them for a future up grade if you do go to IRS.

Also about Mike, he has a lot of experience with buggies (and racing in general). And when you ask for a opinion he will be blunt and to the point. I would rather have it that way then leave you wondering. More than likely he been there, done that. So hes just trying to help you.

I like the name "Trail Buggy"

Norm

If your ever in Ohio, I have some air shocks that came off my SW frame. They look good but I've never aired them up

Hey guys don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining. Please don't stop helping people. It's the nature of the internet. It's hard to communicate your intentions accurately and people can get riled up over little things. I don't want to beat a dead horse. I took Mike's post to mean I was completely wasting my time.
Just for the record, if you read my OP you see this is the type of answer I was asking for..
"To get back to your original question. I don't think there is enough room to install a set of air bags on the end of a swing axle and still clear the wheel, shock(s) and frame. The bag would need to be way bigger in length and diameter than what we are using to work. The bags we are using have a stroke of about 9", I believe the wheel travel on a swing axle is a little more than that so a larger bag would be needed. The cover tube of the swing axle can't support the weight of the car, so mounting them on the tube closer to the trans is out of the question. So I'm going to say air bagging a swing axle is not doable."

..,which ironically came from Mike too, not opinions about my particular setup. But that's ok, really. LOL. Let by-gones be by-gones

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REALLY!

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Water cooled Dry Sumped Subaru Powered Turbo Charged Fuel Injected 2500CC Tank. Oh Rah! He who dies with the most Toys not only wins, He also wears them out!

Absatootlee

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