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 Post subject: Building new front beam
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:24 am 
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Location: Credo WV
I have searched and came up dry. What is involved in fabricating a new 4 inch wider ballpoint front beam

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Archie


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:35 pm 
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You came up dry because not many folk waste their time on balljoint stuff. Limited range of motion and a repetitively weak suspension compared to after market link pin. That doesn't make ball joint beams worth dealing with. To answer your question......
You'll need two different size tubes and something to space out the tubes an two shock towers, either attached to the beam or to the chassis.
You'll need to be able to cut the tubes square and have a real flat table to weld on. Other than that it's pretty easy.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:11 pm 
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MadMike wrote:
You came up dry because not many folk waste their time on balljoint stuff. Limited range of motion and a repetitively weak suspension compared to after market link pin. That doesn't make ball joint beams worth dealing with. To answer your question......
You'll need two different size tubes and something to space out the tubes an two shock towers, either attached to the beam or to the chassis.
You'll need to be able to cut the tubes square and have a real flat table to weld on. Other than that it's pretty easy.


First thank you for the reply. Second my guys say the balljoint front ends are stronger, maybe they don't articulate as well. Are't the beams the same except for spacing between the tubes and why two different size tubes. I have 3 beams in my shop 1 balljoint, one stock link pin and an aluminum link pin . I welded in the frame mounts for balljoint.
Archie


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:43 pm 
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Put two ball joint beans together I've done it

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:46 pm 
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Unless I'm thinking about something else, the upper and lower tube are two different sizes, as are the arms. The lower tube is larger at the ends.
You'll also note I said "aftermarket" when I said link pin being stronger. You are correct in saying that balljoint is somewhat stronger than stock link pin.


Put two ball joint beans together I've done it

Then there's that too.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:23 pm 
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Everything I've been able to figure out about stock stuff is a bj is stronger than kp in stock range of motion, kp is stronger than bj if your cutting the stops off and trying to get more travel cause the bj will max out quick and kp can't max out the same. But the king pins will get sloppy real quick if you run in rough woods a lot. As for aftermarket kp, if anyone thinks a stock bj is stronger than a aftermarket kp combo Spindler they been hit with a stupid stick ALOT!!!! Lol stock kp is 5/8" and aftermarket kp is 1 1/2"


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:28 pm 
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If your trying to run stock stuff and wanna use torsion springs I'd say probably cut two bj beams and put them together cause it would be a waste of time to build a custom beam and put torsion adjusters in, cause if your going to go through that much work you might as well put a beam together without adjusters and get some air shocks and scrap the torsion springs all together cause my opinion they suck


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:39 pm 
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Location: Mason, Ohio
Kingpins may get loose but they still stay together. If a ball joint is worn it will come apart.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:38 pm 
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Cush53 wrote:
Everything I've been able to figure out about stock stuff is a bj is stronger than kp in stock range of motion, kp is stronger than bj if your cutting the stops off and trying to get more travel cause the bj will max out quick and kp can't max out the same. But the king pins will get sloppy real quick if you run in rough woods a lot. As for aftermarket kp, if anyone thinks a stock bj is stronger than a aftermarket kp combo Spindler they been hit with a stupid stick ALOT!!!! Lol stock kp is 5/8" and aftermarket kp is 1 1/2"

Where do I find these aftermarket 1 1/2" king pins
Archie


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:59 am 
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Madmike makes combo spindles


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:05 pm 
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I've been running a stock kingpin with all the weld on gussets and ball joint spuds welded on with no trouble.

If you run completely stock Kingpin, make sure you fill the speedo hole and use the gussets.

I also ran ball joint for years, just had to replace a ball joint every so often as preventative maintenance.

It's really just up to you to decide what you want to run and how much money you want to spend.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:39 pm 
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I have put two BJ front beams together a couple times and they worked well. Let me qualify that by saying I was not into crazy jumping, etc. just climbing and trail riding. I agree that aftermarket KP parts are no doubt superior, but pricey. If you just want the wider for stability, tire clearance, etc. and have two BJ beams you can accomplish this with sweat equity only. You will need two complete sets of torsion springs and cut them to fit, either put in 4 adjusters or cut and rotate the stock anchors a few degrees. A new set of ball joints should last the life of a buggy. On the other hand, if you are building this to be a top notch, second-gear climbing high HP beast and are going to be airborne up mining highwalls, then you might want to put the money in the aftermarket KP front end and basically buy everything with no fabrication needed, other than resetting the front spacing on your buggy, which would be easier than putting two front beams together. This would have more travel and adjustability. My pocketbook and nutsack are not big enough to justify the KP stuff, but I see why some of the gonzo guys (blown Subys and Eco's, 2500's, ) need them. Just depends on how you intend to use it, I put my first double BJ front end through a lot and really liked it. Also had 2" drop (raised) spindles on it, all homemade. Good Luck either way, these questions get a lot of opinions and experience brought out.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:54 pm 
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Herbie53 wrote:
I have put two BJ front beams together a couple times and they worked well. Let me qualify that by saying I was not into crazy jumping, etc. just climbing and trail riding. I agree that aftermarket KP parts are no doubt superior, but pricey. If you just want the wider for stability, tire clearance, etc. and have two BJ beams you can accomplish this with sweat equity only. You will need two complete sets of torsion springs and cut them to fit, either put in 4 adjusters or cut and rotate the stock anchors a few degrees. A new set of ball joints should last the life of a buggy. On the other hand, if you are building this to be a top notch, second-gear climbing high HP beast and are going to be airborne up mining highwalls, then you might want to put the money in the aftermarket KP front end and basically buy everything with no fabrication needed, other than resetting the front spacing on your buggy, which would be easier than putting two front beams together. This would have more travel and adjustability. My pocketbook and nutsack are not big enough to justify the KP stuff, but I see why some of the gonzo guys (blown Subys and Eco's, 2500's, ) need them. Just depends on how you intend to use it, I put my first double BJ front end through a lot and really liked it. Also had 2" drop (raised) spindles on it, all homemade. Good Luck either way, these questions get a lot of opinions and experience brought out.


Herbie,
thank you. After pricing some of the aftermarket KP stuff there is no way I can go that route at this time. and with me just building the buggy I will probably have to stick with the less expensive stuff till I can get some running time on my buggy.
I Purchased new ball joints today

Happy Hunting
archie


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:33 am 
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i have clearanced/ radiused balljoints on mine . supposed to get a little more travel out of them versus stock! and its true that a kingpin will hold together where a balljoint will come apart, so I always carry these huge industrial zipstrips that are strong as hell! balljoint broke at Harlan one weekend , put six of them around the arms where the balljoints are and rode all weekend on them. just a little tip for anyone who runs balljoint :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:00 pm 
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Also one other note, when cutting the torsion springs you will have to use a cutoff wheel on a grinder and try to keep them as cool as possible so you don't screw up the heat treat. These are spring steel and will eat Sawzall or other blades.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:13 pm 
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Herbie53 wrote:
Also one other note, when cutting the torsion springs you will have to use a cutoff wheel on a grinder and try to keep them as cool as possible so you don't screw up the heat treat. These are spring steel and will eat Sawzall or other blades.

No problem thanks for the tip
It is probably stock front end for a while
Happy hunting
Archie


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