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| Round tubing vs Square tubing http://www.woodsbuggy.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=10358 |
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| Author: | nitro_mudder [ Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Round tubing vs Square tubing |
Other then using a tube bender and possibly price what are the benifits? I am not sure but I think square tubing would be stronger. Just wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts on the subject. |
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| Author: | bradley59dzl [ Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Round tubing vs Square tubing |
round tubing is alot lighter when comparing equal sized square to round with the same wall thickness.. |
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| Author: | bmoore [ Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Round tubing vs Square tubing |
bending i think would be the greatest benefit of round! any change in shape with square requires a cut and weld.. but i do agree square is much stronger nitro! |
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| Author: | nitro_mudder [ Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Round tubing vs Square tubing |
Debating an aluminum frame using mosly square tube. Its hard to argue with the SS guys on benifits of weight, just dont want to mess with or pay for a stroker motor. But balance will still be a key issue, hopefully my ideas will work for that, also gets rid of the expence VW bus tranny granades  Now I just need more sponsers.
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| Author: | rockrockets1 [ Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Round tubing vs Square tubing |
Round tube is stronger that's why they build air planes out of it .....Think about it if you weld 2 pieces of square stock together you only have weld on one side ....if you fit a piece of round stock to another it is welded all the way around......engineering 101 |
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| Author: | bradley59dzl [ Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Round tubing vs Square tubing |
torsionally the square is about 30% stronger but it also about 30% heavier |
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| Author: | PhillipM [ Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Round tubing vs Square tubing |
Damn sight less chance of the tube folding flat with the round too. |
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| Author: | ridenrace6 [ Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Round tubing vs Square tubing |
i dont reckon ive ever seen too many roll cages in any kind of motorsport vehicle and i dont think that its the bending issue bcause they DO make dies to bend square tubing also not saying it wont work cause i have seen 1 or 2 buggies made out of square tubing but i think if it was better then there would be more built out square than round |
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| Author: | PhillipM [ Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Round tubing vs Square tubing |
ridenrace6 wrote: i dont reckon ive ever seen too many roll cages in any kind of motorsport vehicle and i dont think that its the bending issue bcause they DO make dies to bend square tubing also not saying it wont work cause i have seen 1 or 2 buggies made out of square tubing but i think if it was better then there would be more built out square than round Yeah, for the same weight as a square tube you can have a round tube with the same wall thickness but bigger diameter - so it's much stiffer, both torsionally and in bending. |
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| Author: | Evan [ Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Round tubing vs Square tubing |
I think what he was saying was Square Alum. Vs. Round Steel I think you would have to use such a big size of square to equal the steel that it wouldnt be worth it |
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| Author: | PhillipM [ Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Round tubing vs Square tubing |
Depends what you're using it for, but i wouldn't make any part of the frame that will be responsible for taking impacts out of aluminium, I wouldn't even make the engine cage out of it unless it was glued and bolted rather than welded, the vibrations from the ol' veedub motor'll fatigue it incredibly quickly especially around the HAZ. |
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| Author: | passat2800 [ Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Round tubing vs Square tubing |
Maybe yall were waiting on der panzerwagen's input.It is stronger like somebody said but pound per strength it takes less metal to make the round.However my frame is just too easy to make. Weld 2 walls together and you are done.2nd I have wrecked and rolled this buggy b4 it was 4 wheel drive 8 different times or more, once leaving a 2sq. ft pool of blood and knocked out.But the good thing since 2001, is that I've skint the h@ll out of the paint, but the frame is un tweeked.Personally I'd go with the round if I had a high hp beetle motor.You'll need a chain drive if you want to move an iron maiden.3rd a good climbing buggy needs to flex. Mine will not even vibrate.If you have a weld on your round tube buggy that just keeps on cracking, leave it alone and it will be a happy buggy.It's trying to tell you something.All yall Alabama boys know ole Smokey.His buggy always has a dozen cracks but he has named more hills out there than any one I know. He gets out of jail every 6 months and here he comes, even if he's only got 3 wheels.4th, when you accelarate , your stub axles is where the force is and they want to push under a heavy frame.When you have weight up too high that's where some people get alot of wheelie action pushing UNDER the weight.Those uncommanded wheelies will get ya hurt!Heavy motors hanging off the back hurts too of coarse. |
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| Author: | RaceBugg1098 [ Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Round tubing vs Square tubing |
 
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| Author: | passat2800 [ Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Round tubing vs Square tubing |
  
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| Author: | nitro_mudder [ Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Round tubing vs Square tubing |
The areas I am looking at ussing Square are... The bottom frame rail. The Hoops around the cockpit The roof and maybe where the schocks / springs attach. I am not 100% sold on this idea. But I think if you use aluminum, you need the strongest material you can find, for safety. |
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| Author: | PhillipM [ Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Round tubing vs Square tubing |
I really wouldn't use aluminium for any of that, it's all pretty vital for your saftey, to get it ductile enough to bend you're going to get a very low strength aluminium, which'd work out heavier than a CDS/Chromoly setup for the same strength, and you've got fatigue cracking to worry about on the welds too. If it were milled out of of billet 6082T6 and then glued and bolted together, then perhaps, even then it have to be fairly bulky or have a limited lifespan before you had to scrap it and make another.
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| Author: | nitro_mudder [ Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Round tubing vs Square tubing |
First off was not planning to bend these areas. And going to tig weld all joints. |
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| Author: | PhillipM [ Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Round tubing vs Square tubing |
Even if you use stronger box, the HAZ you'll get around the weld area will halve the strength, never mind the stress concentration from the weld defects combined with fatigue over time, so you'd have to gusset absolutely every joint. You'd end up with a heavier, more expensive rollcage than simply using T45 tube... Aluminium is great so long as you can change the design to suit it - bonded and rivetted deep box sections work well for example. |
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| Author: | vamon [ Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Round tubing vs Square tubing |
built my sons buggy with square tubing does great no weight problem |
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| Author: | Txfly [ Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Round tubing vs Square tubing |
I think square steel would be fine, but you mentioned square aluminum, IMO (which means nothing on my third post) Aluminum is a bad idea. I don't know buggies, but I do know guys that built the most awesome boat trailers from aluminum and it doesn't work...welded. They gusset and bolt every joint. The only weld on them is for the winch mount. They don't even use aluminum for the the tongue, it's steel, and through bolted to the aluminum frame....They also don't like stainless bolts because the electralosis (sp) opens the holes up in the aluminum. Thought I'd throw in my .02 and get my post count up. Tx |
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| Author: | gonegonzo [ Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Round tubing vs Square tubing |
I have a rack of 11/2'' steel tubing I was going to use for a build . I planned the bottom and mid rail and all the triagulated bars being sqaure tubbing and my cage for the cockpit being round . In my case , it's a matter of wanting to use up the tubbing instaed of waisting it otherwise . Whatyathink ??? Gonzo |
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