I deleted Bruce's topic because I am in charge of this forum and am not going to put up with the Bullsh!t getting carried over here. If you dont like that Please do not post in here.

At either rate, let's see some roof designs from you guys, my buggy isnt getting painted until monday so i might change mine up a little bit? So post up your designs and we will NICELY compliment and critique them. Remember, no fighting ladies!

p.s. no hard feelings towards anyone, just doing my job!

Party Pooper

party pooper that pushes his weight around too!

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"YOU CAN MAKE THINGS HAPPEN, WATCH THINGS HAPPEN OR WONDER WHAT THE F$$K HAPPEND...WE'RE MAKING THINGS HAPPEN" The strong words of Captain Phil! Rest in peice!

thanks curt ive been wbusy at work and home havent had time to delete all those. But yeah let's see some more good, safe designs!

[quote="JeffClay"]I deleted Bruce's topic because I am in charge of this forum and am not going to put up with the Bullsh!t getting carried over here. If you dont like that Please do not post in here.

quote]


What BULL SHIT I just asked for the topic to be moved here. Hey Dean I did not say WTF? Like I said the site name should be changed. What is good for one should be for all. But I forget it is not a public form?

Cmon, big mean Moderator Jeff.
There was no BS in Bruce's post, except for a very slight sarcastic remark aimed at Curt. If we cant poke at each other a little, what fun would that be? I consider my closest friends to be the ones I trust enough to rag on each other a little, without worrying about getting mad at each other.

This is not a .gov site. It is supposed to be fun!

Larry

larry im sorry not trying to make anyone mad but i knew that bruce's post was going to stir up nonsense whether it was meant to or not. There was a response to it i dont remember exactly what it said but the guy wasnt too fond of bruce and i just decided to delete the whole thread and start over. Okay, so if you guys want to be mad at me then so be it i know its fun and i love teasing just as much as the next fella probably more tot ell you the truth but i really think this is a serious subject and needs discussed seriously. Kind of like the hillclimb thing we got in a little argument over. Remember no hard feeligns against anyone okay!

love much,

jeff

But I still do not understand the pop off remark toward me, All I asked and I will qoute it the same way and words I said before:


And I must not have read the post of the guy that was not to fond of me but I would like to know who it was so I will not be to fond of him!!!

That quote was the original post in this site that you deleted and call Bull shit! I do not understand the Bullshit remark. I thought it was a good topic that did not need to be in a get well topic, which had turned to pot because of some B.S. remarks about Clayton.

bruce the bullshit came from what immediately stemmed from your post and there was definately some sarcasticness (is that a word?) in your post. I'm sorry like i said im just trying to keep the subject clear becaue i think that it is important and needs seriously discussed but here it is again getting cluster f----d up with arguing. Damn can we just let it go now jesus were all here to discuss buggies and nhaving FUN not buggies and how stupid each other are. alright now play nice fellas.

Would you suggest .120 or.095 to do some bracing? I,ve got an older Invader frame in desperate need of braces. Trying to do everything before I repaint.

THANKS

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WHEN IN DOUBT DRINK ANOTHER BEER!!!!!!!!!!

I would use 120. If hillclimbing paid a million a year I would go light. But I have to go to work on monday.

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It's amazing what you can accomplish when you don't care who gets the credit.-
Harry S. Truman

i still like the 4-10 pitch with the classic owens corning shingles i dont care who knows just going to get deleted anyway

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i dont always ride my buggy but when i do im glad it has a bad ass bow tie makin the horsepower

Jesus loves me, but everyone else thinks im an asshole.

Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration, don't fail us now!

well I use .063 but some say I am crazy?

wow bruce i didnt know they could go that thin. i bet that is a light buggy . my son cyle just had some .120 bent for his roof support behind his head.

DAREK

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I want to die in my sleep like my grandpa. not screaming like the passengers in his car...

i guess some have more to protect brains that is

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i dont always ride my buggy but when i do im glad it has a bad ass bow tie makin the horsepower

Jesus loves me, but everyone else thinks im an asshole.

Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration, don't fail us now!

The wall thickness and tubing diameter required depends on the weight of the buggy and design of the roof that you are trying to support. Like Bruce said, .063 1" will work to support .095 1 1/2" main bars, along with 1 1/4" 083 x bracing and race bracing and be plenty strong on 1300 lb or so buggy with a good amount of clearance above your head.
But on a heavier RB, that may be insufficient.
Obviously, it is safer to err on the side of heavier tubing.

If you are trying to stay as light as possible, PLEASE consult an experienced professional who has built buggies of similiar design that have been tried and tested. Do not trust hearsay or ever 'think it will be ok'. Find out for sure.
I think your best bet on a light buggy build is to have the chassis built completely by someone who will work with you and build the chassis to fit you and your needs, like Chuck Jones. He can build you a light chassis that is safe for only a few hundred dollars more than what the tubing itself would cost retail.

Larry

That is why mine is built the way it is for protection. There can never be too much safety!

Buggys like mine and Larry’s (and many more) has been figured out through many years of trial and era, not to mention an engineer has given them much thought and input. (Lewis) When I say .063 that is only certain bars. Never would I have one built with the 2 frame rails (upper and lower), head support bar, and windshield bar, Out of anything less than .095. Light = less weight to push! But that is not everything it takes to get up a hill. You can overcome the heaviness by HP like Curts buggy. All the extra weight is overcome by the 700 hp he has. But the agility can not be over come with a heavy buggy. That is one reason for going light as possible with all the "goat trails" that I like to ride you can not take a 2000lb buggy and do it. Even with 1000hp. There is a lot of flat roofs out there in most cases (But not all) they are very unsafe. A straight bar will bend before a bent bar will. So a flat roof has to have more bracing. As Larry said do not take my word on anything about a buggy roof call up some one that has experience and many years of building the type of buggy you want. Hence CD Curt and his dad, standard Buggy call Chuck 606-224-9921.

Was leanin toward .120 can,t afford to get hurt plus it is available where I work pretty easy. As far as input all is appreciated the guy who is bending all my tubing builds chassis for a living. The flat roof is what I am running now a little close to my head so I'm going to raise it 3-4 inches for a little more room add X-bracing behind seats and downtubes off of the windshield area also.

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WHEN IN DOUBT DRINK ANOTHER BEER!!!!!!!!!!

I like to look to the racers for ideas. And if you look at desert racing most of these frames look basically like Nicks and Daves. Straight bars and lots of bracing. The guys who race in the desert have been at it for years and have huge budgets to work with. I bet they have had an engineer or two look into their designs also.
http://www.race-dezert.com/cgi-bin/trader/atl.cgi?ct=5
Checkout http://race-dezert.com/ look at some of these frames.

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It's amazing what you can accomplish when you don't care who gets the credit.-
Harry S. Truman

That is exactly where I got most of my ideas! If it's good enough for tech inspection for a 1000 mile race then it sure as hell is good enough for me. My buggy is heavy but I never felt safer.

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When in doubt, hit it in second gear!

Also those guys in the desert are crashing and a much high speed so the impact is much harder and they all run a flat roof. I would say lots of staight bars and braces everywhere.

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kydecoy
Work Hard Play Harder

If you can crash at 140 mph off road, flip 10 times , land on the roof 8 of those 10, and walk away, they know their stuff!!!!

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If its got boobs or a motor its gonna give you trouble!!

Thats true about the desert racers, but you seen the Nascar COT chassis?? Bent tubing everywhere.

How about a funny car or top fuel rail cage? Main bars bent , not butted and braced.

Just the oppposite though, p/u truck frames are bent , so they WILL bend at those points, to absorb impact. All modern trucks I've worked on are bent right behind the suspension in front of the cab. To get clearance for the suspension to fit within body lines, but also integrates a "last resort" fold area, so if its a hard enough hit to destroy the frame that deep , theres a better chance it wont pull the cab apart with it. It is illegal to splice one here. You have to go all the way under cab, or do it in front of first cross member, but at least 4" behind the last ridge in the crush zone. Most OEM's dont want it done at all. Obviously trucks are Not tubing, though.

Maybe flat roofs and straight bars with braces are stronger, though, when you arent using huge tubing like Nascar & NHRA does. I dunno??

I think a little give, but not too much to invade "cabin" area too far, is the safest design.

What do the real structural engineers say?

Larry

No doubt about it, for strength.

When is it wasted weight ,though? Each chassis only has to support so much weight and impact.
You could just keep adding bars until you couldnt get in it, but less than half of them would serve a purpose.

I hear what you are saying, and I'm adding the braces to mine that I talked about in the other thread, so it wont do (hopefully) what Clayton's did in the same case, even with half the weight on it. I dont think it ever would anyways without the weight, but his wreck was too close of a call to gamble with.

I'm just wondering, is there no way to calculate what is necessary?. With all the technology there is today, someone knows how to do it. Not just by previous trial and error, but what if someone wanted to do a totally new off the wall design, couldnt they find out the bare minimum in design and structure needed to support any given weight rolling over on itself (even falling on itself with g's affecting it) without having any tube or size of tube that was overkill? And know if a 45* bend would be stronger or weaker than 45* butt joint in a piece of tubing on that particuliar chassis?

I guess its goofy to even worry about it to that level, but the "what if" factor is what interests me.

Larry