hey im building a buggy and im thinking of a subura motor instead of a vw whats the pros and cons to these to and what are your thougths to it

thanxs

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new to the buggy world so any help would be great

Check this out...

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=113620

Hi Tanner, I am running an ej22. I used to run the smaller carbed ea81. I began using these engines because I could not afford the upgrades to get equal power and dependability out of the stock VW engines. I am sticking to the Subaru engine because I still can not afford the big VW engines. I do not doubt that I am cheating myself out of power but I enjoy the dependability of the EFI, distributorless, overhead cam,ECU monitored Subaru. I may upgrade to a more powerful turbo charged engine in the future. Some of the downfalls are ground clearance. I chopped my oil pan as much as I could but I still am low. The engine package is some heavier. I use airbags to compensate for the weight. I am not much mechanically inclined so I am limited to the stock power. Mainly I just like to be different and the watercooled is different. This is a growing sport with growing ideas. I encourage Subaru power but am not dissapointed when some one does not. Aircooled is cool too. I hope more Subaru guys (Madmike) chime in with their oppinions.

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If your clutch ain't slippin,, you probably got it adjusted right!!!!!

I tell everyone, and there has been a bunch who have asked; Once the inital expence is delt with and the set-up is complete, there is no better power for a buggy. The guys who ride with me will tell you I have no power problems. The weight difference isn't worth talking about and you will loose some ground clearance, that can be fixed. Depending where and how you ride might or might not make a difference. The availability of the 2.2L motor is almost unlimited and they are reasonable out of the junk yard. Do some home work, gather all the parts, do it right the first time and you will be amazed, I still am

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Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.
M
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My thoughts..... Call ShadeTree Performance. 740-377-4850. Tell Dave what you want.If you cannot afford one of his engines then think about a Suby. I am very very very very pro aircooled VW.
Dean

No better power???? C'mon. Maybe the most power for your money, but no better period?

Have you ever driven a 2500 (or more) cc Vw powered buggy w/ a second gear 6 rib? Aside from a WRX STi motor ($5K around here) , a subie cant touch one. 6500 rpm redline? My motor is just getting comfy at 6500.

The weight difference may not matter on some buggies, but even 10 lbs matters on a light buggy, especially if you plan on climbing some of the REALLY bad stuff. There is also the weight of the radiator, the hoses, the water in the system, etc.

You also have to calculate the expense of the adapter and getting the wiring figured out for the ECU to hook it up. Or maybe you could try a megasquirt, but you still need someone pretty techno-savvy for that even. Maybe someone here could do it for you, or you are a computer whiz, but its definately not gonna be plug-n-play.

And IF you do have engine problems (less likely, but possible), who's gonna have parts or a diagnostic computer in the woods? Aside from catastophic failure, you can usually patch up a vw to get you home. If you spend money in the right places, a big VW motor is reliable also. I've had mine for 4 years now, and the only engine problem was an old MSD box went bad on me. (It had seen ten years in the woods, I guess I cant complain. ) Runs just a strong as first time out.

It all comes down to how and where you plan on riding. There is no doubt a Fuelie Subie is more reliable and tamer to drive, and probably nothing beats it for trail ridin in a conventional buggy. And it may be cheaper for mid power levels. But horsepower and torque, no matter what brand you like, costs money. If ultimate power isnt your goal, $1700 ought to get you in a fresh 1915 and a three rib ( or even a 5-rib), and that combo will push a LIGHT buggy a whole lot of places, and I cant see a subie conversion being much cheaper than that, after ALL expenses are figured. And a lot less time involved slidin in the tranny, and poppin on a vw motor. No suspension altering, no exhaust work, no oil pan splicing, no trial and error, just a tried and true formula that works very well.

I'm not bashing Subies, they definately have their benefits, but if Tanner2803 isnt an experienced builder, it could be alot of project to jump into.

Larry

Well said Larry. And you will, I'm sure admit you have some bucks in your drivetrain. I wonder how the Suby compares to a good running relativly low cost 1915 engine?

Thanks, Dean. Yes, I have a few coins in my set up, as does every one else with the same, as you know. But I spent it ONCE, and I havent had to spend any more on engine or tranny, except for an MSD box.

I'd imagine the stock subie would be torquier, but on top end and for wheel speed, the stock subies I've seen ( and its only two I can think of) at D&K dont look as though they'd match a 1915. Maybe it was just the hill they were on, maybe it was the conditions those particuliar days (dry and hot both times), maybe it was the rest of their setups. One of them was having engine trouble, had a pretty bad intermittant miss.

As far as top performance, and high $$ power, I'm not so sure a Subie dominates there either. King of the Hill Mark, built a buggy with his WRX STi 2.5 west coast race shop tuned turbo Subie motor (over $10K invested,the same one in his Predator 4x4 now) that makes like 350 hp. Spent a boat load on suspension and clutches to make it work, but it was just overkill. Couldnt put the power to use, or get a clutch to hold it very long. Now look what he wins the hillclimbs with! A BIG typeI VW motor. And he could run whatever he wanted.

Again, dollar for dollar, if you got some skills and the time, a subie motor is great. A stock 2.2 prolly gets you VW stroker torque, with reliability, for less money. Do you like to torque up hills , or lay it on the mat and throw some dirt!! Each his own.

Larry

A stock 2.2 Subie motor does not have the same low end torque that a small stroker motor does. I have a small stroker motor (2276) running on pump gas and I put down 130 ft lbs to the ground at 2,500 rpm. The stock 2.2 Subie only puts down about 100 at the same rpm. Step up to a higher compression or a larger displacement VW motor and you would nearly double the output of the stock 2.2 Subaru motor. If you want INEXPENSIVE power, a junkyard Subaru motor can't be beat!

R

Anybody selling?

if i can buy a 1915 and a 3 or 5 rib for $1700 please share the phone # of were i can get the parts lol b.c from what iv priced out to build a motor its about $1500 and thats doing my own work which is fine but im short on money

im very very mechanicly inclinedjavascript:emoticon(':P')
Razz so i dont think wiring and what not on a subie is much of a problem for me

im building my first buggy and its just to play in nothing extream just off road with my freinds and maybe some mud but mostly to drive to school and what not

so from that what do yall think is the best way to go

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new to the buggy world so any help would be great

I agree with you Larry and Dean. The days of people saying VW motors are like a grenade (they can explode at any time) are over most people get many years of service out of them now (6 to 10 or more) with out anything being done to them. No matter what buggy you have less weight is easier to push up a hill or up a trail. Charlie

Tanner, You are just gonna have to get the engine you can afford. Anything to get into the woods and then upgrade when you can. The main thing is get in the rail buggy and ride. No motor is perfect in all aspects. When I ride with VW's I notice some of them stop at the bottom of hills and clear out their engine. I do not have to do this. Some guys don't ride when it is hot because their power is down on the hottest days. I ride all seasons. Carbs are old school and it takes lots of experience to tune them. I do not need to tune anything. I did have to get another engine recently because I did not oil my filter like I was supposed to. I bought an engine for $400 and swapped it out one weekend. I did the harness myself and believe me when I say "If I can do it , anybody can". I am proud of my Subaru engine but If I had 3 grand to spare I might try a big VW. My friend Budwieser, aka Turtle had a Pinto engine and he went to VW and is very glad he did.. If you go to Subaru watch out it loves to eat 3 ribs. good luck and get in and ride

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If your clutch ain't slippin,, you probably got it adjusted right!!!!!

ok i think im going to do what firebug said and get what i can for now and upgrad when i get the money

i mean he is right any ride is better than no ride

but im still guna do some more research so any more in put will help

thanxs so far for all the help

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new to the buggy world so any help would be great

You might find a stock dualport. If you can find a whole bug then you have lots of spare parts. I am always looking for bug parts for my dad. If you decide to go with the Subaru then start looking for a 1990-1994 legacy. The ej22 is a good engine. Get the whole care and do lots of research on the internet. There are step by step instruction on removing the wiring harness and so forth. You might run across a good deal on a VW engine also. When you go to the woods with other buggys , look around at the diversity. Tons of ideas out there. Make your own statement. good luck

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If your clutch ain't slippin,, you probably got it adjusted right!!!!!

Wow, I don't have time for this. Anyone who wants to run something other than a VW in a buggy, in my opinion, there is no better "substitute" than a Subaru. The guy asked for an opinion, that's what he got.
I also like radial tires, microwave ovens and my little GPS receiver. I try not to boast about it. The bias ply convection oven map folding loyalist union always gets pissed off when I do.

I'm thinking of the same thing. I already have the subi engine wire harness,and rad. I guess the problem is. Is it still a buggy with water cooled? Well the answer is yes! put the subi in! you will be able to go anywhere a v-dub can. As soon as i get my adapter plate mine will go in. Bugys have evolved from tunnel buggys to hard core rails, woods or sand. Someday we will have hydrygen powered buggys. You'll see! I say put in what you can. I have a good runing 2077 and i'm puting in a subi over winter. Subarus are everywhere v-dubs are getting rare. maybe we need to update the buggy again! Good kuck with your decision. I'm going subi soon!

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"YOU CAN MAKE THINGS HAPPEN, WATCH THINGS HAPPEN OR WONDER WHAT THE F$$K HAPPEND...WE'RE MAKING THINGS HAPPEN" The strong words of Captain Phil! Rest in peice!

PREACH ON BROTHER

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If your clutch ain't slippin,, you probably got it adjusted right!!!!!

Tanner, I made the mistake of assuming you already had a VW engine and were looking to rebuild and upgrade. Thats why I suggested 1915. And that could EASILY be done at Southern-buggies for $13-$1400 for a longblock if your block was rebuildable, and you'd have 3-400 left for a tranny.

If you are just farting around in the woods , and a little street driving, then Firebug is right on the money. Do what you can, just get to riding!!

Maybe the Subie computers are easier to work with, or I'm just too old school to figure it out, but I had a 3800 GM motor and ECM that I had considered putting on my wife's buggy, but couldnt get anyone locally to help me with figuring out the wiring, including some friends that are GM techs at a competing dealership. I consider myself to be fairly mechanically inclined also, at least I hope I am because thats what puts food on my table. But , that has little to do with figuring out a computer controlled vehicle's wiring system. In the meantime I had considered all the extra suspension work I'd have to do, and the dificulties involved with transporting multiple buggies to go riding, especially if one of then weighed an extra 500 lbs., and got over my "water on the brain". I was kinda looking forward to the challenge, but I really dont have the time to be wastin'. I'd rather be ridin than wrenchin!

I traded it off to Crazybone, and I believe he did figure it out, but he's a computer builder, thats what puts food on his table! His personal buggy is a carbureted GM 4.3, and it does great for him. Different driving styles. Each his own , and they are all COOL! Weird thing is, I didnt even know him until I saw his ad online looking for a GM V6 for his buddy, and he only lives like 5 miles from me!! He could've fixed that computer for ME, had I known him sooner!

And as far as a pair of Webers or Dell's bein old school, thats a whole nother thread!

Larry

Start that thread. Rock on EFI

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If your clutch ain't slippin,, you probably got it adjusted right!!!!!

Stevo, of course its still a buggy!!! Is it fun? Does it break sometimes? Will it smoke a Jeep anywhere offroad? Can you roll it without dying, unlike a quad? Then its a buggy!

Larry

I also have a name of someone close to you for used parts.

The Bug Shop Aubrey Watson 803-534-4923
cell #803-707-5303

He is in Orangeburg SC. He has alot of used parts at a show last weekend he had several 3 ribs and 6 ribs for sale.

I hope this helps you. Good luck

3.1
chevy
with turbo
is the way to go it will make alot of H.P

I know alot of guys that use that motor rockrockets is talking about. They have good luck out of them and most of the time they are cheep.

2000 model 3.0 honda v-tech
200+ hp, 200 lbs. torque (stock)
approx. 170 lbs. heavier than VW
only lost maybe 1.5" clearance, no oil pan mod.


$500- motor
$450- adapter/flywheel
$1100- to have computer modified

no extreme hill climber, but climbs good, torque is awesome, really nice on rough trails
mike