Yeah , go watercooled. I wish everybody would except me.

Save money on the motor, spend it back on $1000's worth of fancy coilovers n stuff ,or screwing with air pressure and mulitple shocks to find the sweet spot in an air bag setup, trying to get your suspension to work for hillclimbing as well as an a/c buggy's, and still never get there. Those Watercoolers never break either, right Marty..... and Tanner.......and Mark? And they are so easy to pick up and move them around on a hill when you get all jacked up.......easy if you got a crane on the trail with you. 2 men and a boy with a strap can get any a/c buggy that aint overbuilt off of a hillside. And the fuel injection and other electronics, its soo easy to diagnose and fix on the trail and everybody will have the parts you need in their toolbox, right? Oh yeah, its so responsive, too. (Somebody dont know how to tune a set of duals if a factory FI setup feels better to them). And that radiator , that great big ol' vision blocker, it will never get hot behind your head or take a stick thru it, or get crushed if mounted on the very back, or boil over, or take up room on your buggy you'd rather give to something else.

I cant climb worth a damn compared to a lot of the guys I ride with, and even I have never even been close to outclimbed by a conventional buggy with a waterpumper on it. I aint saying it wont happen, but it aint yet. Most of the time they cant even hardly get started climbing the hill. Firebug has his going pretty well now, after several years of nonstop trying different stuff, 100's of hours in the shop, and he still aint done. I definately applaud his effort and innovation. He's come a long way with it, but his setup is not for the unskilled builder, or someone light in the wallet, or with out lots of time for trial and error.

Innovation and trying new things is awesome, and necessary, but I get tired of hearing how much waterpumpers are better. They are NOT better for hillclimbing. Its been proven OVER and OVER. Take a rear mounted waterpumper and outclimb any of the singleseater A/C stroker KY buggies at D&K, and I'll start lookin for a clapped out grocery-getter donor car the next day.

Thanks for the good argument yall.It's educational for all.Thanks 4 taking up 4 me , Marty.But Brandon,the best thing about this Passat is,I ain't smart enough or rich enough to rebuild it!,but I do know the junkyard has them for an average of $750, ($550-650 minus alt ,smog pump, a/c, and pwr steering). Pull over to the side off the road, swap out motor, get back in, Uhhhh!I'm off and going while you are talking to California putting something drastic on your plastic. (visa)!Dave out.

I beleave there is a water pumper in Kentucky that has out climbed the a/c motor. Hollywoods.

Hi Ky. I didn't mean to put it on a conv buggy. I tried that once and was to heavy.Go back to "Totally new cocept buggy".The majic is in the passat trans multiplying thru the IRS ford and it is a mid engine.I keep a chain hoist in the truck if ever needed. It is atleast 250 pounds heavier than my son's conv buggy. If a sensor goes bad it will run in the open loop . I can put a OBD2 diagnostic scanner in the port for trouble shooting.A slung belt is the same harm as a stick in the radiator.Have fun up there and tell other w/c' s. They may be intrested. I've got to go get prepped for Choccolocco tomorrow.Thanks for the humiliation . I love it.Dave out.

Yeah, he's built two of 'em. And there is another one that will run right with them built by his mentor (all of KY buggies mentor in one way or another) Lewis. BUT they could both do better when they were in their AC VW buggies, and Hollywood will tell you that.

Read my post again....slowly ......and a lil more carefully. I said waterpumper on a CONVENTIONAL buggy.

Either of them could outclimb most people on a tricycle anyways.

The price is as much as you want to spend. We just put a 2276 and a 6 rib in my car and and had to completely refigure how everything was mounted back there from when I had my 3 rib and small motor. They are never done, and they are expensive as sh!t....

I love a good point of view argument just as much as the next guy,and i will stick to my a/c buggy for my own choice reasons.with that said i agree on buying the used buggy route if you plan on spending that much money,you can find some awsome buggys with all the best parts for half of what it cost you to put together.even if its not the frame you want buy the frame you want then buy a buggy that has everything your looking for and put it on your frame then sell the frame you dont want.i built my last buggy everything from ground up and still not done with it to the point of saying i'm done time for powder coat,and ive got close to 15,000 invested in dollars thats not counting labor.next one will be someone elses time and labor and i will benefit from the divorce or loss of job or what ever the reason they are saling it for and i think i woukld come out far ahead.thats my 2 cent.chad

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NOW GAS IT!!!!!

Dave passat2800, you are saying a whole lot of the same I'm saying. Before people spout about how awesome a waterpumper is, they need to tell it like you did just now: Waterpumpers can work with a lot of R&D, and major changes. It does not work well enough for me to go away from ac VW's that I've seen. I love the way acVW's sound, the way they rev quick, they way they look on a little buggy, there simplicity, and they never cease to amaze me at what they will do. I expect some big 500-700 pound hunk of iron to have power but a little thin walled, old technology, alloy 4 banger doin that is too cool, IMO.

And I could see where you'd only be 250 lbs heavier than some conventional buggies, but I bet you got 600 or more lbs over the buggies I'm talkin about.

Your plan is innovative. Not brand new, its been done before, there was a guy on buggytalk that did a couple buggies with GM front drivetrains. This concept works for you, you are happy with it, and that is great. Thats what buggy riding should do, bring joy.

I just cant overlook how you brazenly stated in your first post you could "terrorize" conventional buggies with it , and give CD's a run for their money on their kind of hills. I dont see it happenin, not on some twisty turnin cutback hills.

You got alot of "bang for your buck" for sure. I just want the most "bang" from my bucks even if it takes a few more. This aint a cheap sport no matter how you do it. I save $$ when I can, but I'm not into buggies for the "economy" of them. I'd take up hiking if I didnt expect to spend money in the woods.

Larry

Ok . From this point forward my message is to po folks that want to have a contender. I know all about the buggies and chain drives that are out there and what they do.Somewhere there is a young smart kid that will take this and run with it. He's not going to sit around and wait til I perfect it, but perfect it himself.Maybe he has a Toyota Honda or something for it.I hope a cave man came up with this 1st ,so people will quit saying somebody in a far off land did it 1st. But thanks for the attack. It lets bystanders know, that I know what I am talking about.I guess a "good" video would say it better.Terry Yerby my video partner catches me at that same hill. I know the hill is old. Marty wants to ride down here and he can witness it for Woodsbuggy.I KNOW I've spent $20K thruout the years minimum on monster motors and transmissions.I'm flat broke.Busted, disgusted and can't be trusted. I've been there and I don't want to go back. If you already have a great VW you should NOT do this. I just want to give the world an alternative.Those monster vw's are awesome and lite weight.I could have been the 1st to tell you that in the 70's-90's.Sorry, but some of yall are good at gettin me all bent up. I hope to drink beer at a camp fire with yall someday and cut up.Speaking of being broke. Who needs my good , straight CALIF. 4 seater frame? Now that would look good with a Cadillac NorthStar V8 FWD set up sitting where the back seat WAS! Dave out. I'll take humiliation now.

I regret that you view my posts as attacks on you or attempts to humiliate you, they were not. They were responses to your claims of bein able to smack around traditional buggies. You set your own self up for humiliation by saying something like that. If you look at it from my point of view, you pretty much were saying someone would be an idiot to build an AC VW when they could copy yours and do BETTER. I just asked you to prove it.

If you only spent $20k over the years on "monster vw motors and trannys", I wanna know where you are gettin the parts, I'd like to get some of them prices. How many have you done? That would barely build two big strokers done right. You are right, they are too damn expensive. If you built multiple big motors AND trannies , and only spent $20k, there had to have been some MAJOR corners cut, even if you did the labor AND machining yourself. Maybe thats why you dont care for them any more? Go cheap anywhere in a 2500 or bigger ac VW , and its a ticking time bomb. Do it right , and they will give YEARS of reliable extreme duty service.

Back before you even had an account on here, someone posted that video of your buggy zippin up a small hillside. I complemented your buggy in that thread. I thought the design was cool, and still do, but later when you got on here and you started puttin down traditional buggies, that was not cool. I took it as a "call out", which is fine. But you shouldnt get bent when someone calls you out right back. I enjoy goin back n forth a lil and dont wanna humiliate nobody. But I dont want nobody telling newbies one way to build a buggy without them hearing the other side of the story either. Let them see side by side comparison and see if spending the extra dough is worth it to them or not.

I also hope we will get to talk about all this around a campfire havin a few cold ones soon also.

Are you goin to pickwick on the third of Oct ?

Well guys let me put my buggy out there for the attack now. A few of you got to see my buggy on its 3rd trip when I brought her down to Wellsville. It was the buggies and my 3rd trip ever in a woods buggy. Since I have done some weight transfering and it has become a different sort of animal, still far from ever being complete. I'm going to take a month or so off riding to try and get a few upgrades done that keep getting put off. Then if all goes to plan bring it down to D&K for Halloween weekend. I can't wait to see and TRY to run with these KY boys. Were we ride the trails are extremely tight so most guys have wheelbases around the 90" range to be able to squeeze thru the trees. So far everything there that I have seen that looks like a challenge she has gone up like nothing. Granted a few times it has takin a 2nd run where i use over half throttle. But that weight is a blessing on traction, and a curse on straight up. So I keep tweeking and tweeking, and she keeps getting better and better. If i knew what 2 of the screws on a carb did and what a jet was I would love to run an A/C. But my ignorince in tunning combined with my isolation from anyone who deals with woodsbuggies makes my lerning curve larger then I want to wait for. I'm not saying mine is better, I'm fairly certain its not on an extreme hillclimb, or ever will be. But I'll be damned if I ever settle till its hard to tell. These things remind me of the old RC10's I raced as a kid, but now I sit inside it! I think I get more enjoyment from making it do better sometimes then I do the ride. But hey, normal has always scared the hell outa me!

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Oh and per this thread. Including purchase price and upgrades I'm around $6000 in for a capable street leagle buggy with multiple tires and cumfy suspension seats. Sounds like that isn't a whole lot more then the killer climbers have in a engine and tranny. And I cant wait to go to D&K andhavemore challenging hills, so I can haul her home and know what to change next. As with conventional A/c buggies you cnat do something new the first time and have it perfect. If so you guys would still have pan buggies, which are just cool as hell, IMO. And for you guys, which only seems to be KYBuggy, that are totally happy with your buggies. Let's do something different to make it better. I mean its not like the basic principle of these things hasn't been being used for years. I just have a hard time believing that we, and by we I mean woodsbuggies, have peaked at the capabilities of hill climbing/trail riding. I'm just aiming to be as maxed out on capable/comfortable/durable/reliable as I can so I can start my next project. A 4x4 IFS woodsbuggy.

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WHEN and Where???????

Can't we all just get along? What happened to the topic? just wanted to play along. I have at least 8000.00 in mine and it still has an almost stock motor and a stock 3 rib. Built it myself. Should have bought someone elses already done for that money and i would be way further ahead.

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Turbocharged Ecotec,vanogon midshift,Berrien WoodsBuggy wagon.

Only way i know to get a better buggy than what that i have is put a new paint job on mine. Just my thought.

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If it feels good, hold it to the floor and pour it to it!
http://www.dandkoff-roadpark.com/FORSALE.html

It does have barrell rash on the bottom

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If your clutch ain't slippin,, you probably got it adjusted right!!!!!

Hope you make it to D&K, you will have a blast !!

I never said there was not room for improvement in my buggy. Just that a radiator aint gonna do it.

KY from what I hear about you guys and your Kentucky buggies, I doubt it would make it any better also. From what I hear I need to see yours to see what to shot for!

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Please come you will have a BIG time. We always do!!!!!!

We will try, its a 6 to 7 hour drive on a 2 day weekend. Oh and VW_Bandon, Buy a completed or somewhat completed one for probibly half price. Then modify it to your liking. And then do as it seems alot on here do and build your custom if you still want more after a few years into it.

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Thanks for the compliment.



I agree 100% thats the fastest way to get riding a really good buggy if you dont wanna spend a huge pile of $$ on a new build right off the bat. Drive the best you can afford to buy for a year or two. Go different places and see different style of buggies in the woods actually in action and decide for yourself what will fit your own driving preferences and you will spend your money more wisely. Most important, just get to riding!

Thats what I did. Bought a buggy (nitro jr build) 3 yrs ago, and was just overwhelmed. I had no idea where to start but knew I needed alot to be able to ride. Finally my wife told me to buy a completed one for $3000. So I bought one for $5000, lol. Now I'm HOOKED! And have so many ideas for building one complete in a few years. And I'm sure I'll go with a waterpumper for my own reasons (ignorant to the world of carbs, always was more of a meat eater). But I keep changing my mind on what exactly is perfect. Was toying around with a chaindrive idea or something like Passats, but at 99" mine is long for the tight trees at Haspin. So get a complete one, go to different places. See what fits best for where you think you will ride. I want a four seater to be my build for kids to join in. But still not sure on best setup, and maybe never will be.

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