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 Post subject: timing problems
PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:55 pm 
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I need your help. I'm about ready to give up. I can not get my motor to run at 30 degree timing. If I bring it down to about 35 degrees, it basically won't run, It pops, shoot flames. I turned the distrubtor up to about 50 or 60 degrees, and it seemed to run somewhat normal but it stil pops a little bit. Let me start at the beginning what happened. Fourth of July weekend, about 3 am Saturday, we were in the creekbed, and I stopped the buggie, and it was like someone had turned the switched off and the buggie died. So we decided to tow it back to camp. Sunday morning, we put a new msd 6al box on, tried a new coil, and nothing. I figured it was the pickup coil in the msd distributor. So when I got home, I bought a new pickup coil and a new coil, and still nothing. The buggie won't start. I changed the msd box again and nothing. So I started with the ground wire that goes to the battery and made a jumper. It ran. It turned out the crimp on the lug for the ground wire that I put on for the battery pulled out so it was bad ground. The buggie starts now. But when I put the timing light on it, it just won't run right. If I try to time it at 30 degrees, it will barely idle and will shoot flames all over the place. Now when I bring it up to 50 or 60 degrees, it will idle nice, it will rev, but it will pop a little bit. I checked all of my valves, those were good. I even put new spark plugs in. I took the new pick up coil and new coil off and put the old back in with no changes. I even went up to the store and bought a new timing light thinking that maybe my timing light was bad. Still the same. I can't set the timing to 30 degrees. I'm lost. I just can't figure it out. The whole ignition is new. By the way, the motor is a 2276 with dual 44 webbers.

I really really need some help.
Thanks
Dave


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 Post subject: Re: timing problems
PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:07 pm 
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Location: Frankfort, Ky.
check for hair line crack in rotary button msd bad for that


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 Post subject: Re: timing problems
PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:20 pm 
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Location: Cuyahoga Falls OH
hey Dave I had a timing problem this year mine kept jumping all over,inacurate and never the same twice I replaced complete ignition but still had problems it ended up being the spring and washer under my dist. drive gear was worn and weak, call it luck but worked fine after that I have an extra if you want them and the drive gear puller if you need it


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 Post subject: Re: timing problems
PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:16 pm 
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Location: Wellsville, Ohio
Maybe a dumb question, But my buddy checked his valves and turned the motor clockwise and his pop and spit like crazy..But Valves we're adjusted by turning the motor counter clockwise Correct?

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 Post subject: Re: timing problems
PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:27 pm 
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If your using a digital timing light you will never get a correct read with msd. They shoot multiple sparks so it throws the light off. Use the old style timing light with msd. Plus If I remeber you should be timing it at 300 rpms to get total timing with all the weights and springs in use.

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 Post subject: Re: timing problems
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:08 am 
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Location: Germantown Ohio
Check to make sure the plug wires are'nt crossed just for the hell of it.


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 Post subject: Re: timing problems
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:42 am 
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new cap and new rotory button?

also just a suggestion but you mentioned in another post about moisture/rust inside the distributor, so make sure and check that the advance mechanism is free and working properly, mine was almost rusted "solid" and i could barley move it back and for by hand till i got a hold of it with some good ole sili kroil :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: timing problems
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:26 am 
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Stevo wrote:
If your using a digital timing light you will never get a correct read with msd. They shoot multiple sparks so it throws the light off. Use the old style timing light with msd. Plus If I remeber you should be timing it at 300 rpms to get total timing with all the weights and springs in use.


X2 my buddy ruined his stroker motor for his stock car because he borrowed my snap on light to check it. :shock: :cry: They don't like to detonate at 8200 rpm

Also I read that you changed msd box and ground. Never read that you changed distributor....


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 Post subject: Re: timing problems
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:33 am 
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lngtrvl2332 wrote:
Stevo wrote:
If your using a digital timing light you will never get a correct read with msd. They shoot multiple sparks so it throws the light off. Use the old style timing light with msd. Plus If I remeber you should be timing it at 300 rpms to get total timing with all the weights and springs in use.


X2 my buddy ruined his stroker motor for his stock car because he borrowed my snap on light to check it. :shock: :cry: They don't like to detonate at 8200 rpm

Also I read that you changed msd box and ground. Never read that you changed distributor....

i put in a new pickup coil. I cleaned the in side good it all moves nice


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 Post subject: Re: timing problems
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:01 am 
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You will need to start over from scratch on the timing part on the distributor.....make sure the firing order is correct and once you verify that it is correct, I would start out 15 degrees BTDC on the number 1 cylinder compression stroke, look at the rotor button and start from there for your firing order and then try to run it, then once it runs (it will run like crap for a few seconds) try to rev the motor to 3000 rpms and turn the distributor back and forth to wherever it needs to go to get the 32 degrees total timing then let it idle and shut it off. Double check your carbs....make sure they are truly synced out and I mean perfect and that can make a huge difference on how it idles and so forth, also check you intake gaskets, they can make the engine run like crap out of nowhere when the nuts comes a little loose and lets air in that way without noticing. I have worked several buggies like this and it has been the best route I can find to get to the bottom of these issues on the running/idle problems. This will also help to see if your main problem is in your ignition or your carbs at this point. I have ran my MSD for a little over 5 years with zero issues besides the rusting part in the distributor and still using the same one today, I change the cap and rotor button once a year regardless if it is good or not and I keep the old ones for a spare after I check them to see if it is still good to use, if I see a hairline crack or some corrosion on the button and/or cap, I throw them away and buy a new set.

This is the timing light I use and it is perfect.....http://www.jegs.com/i/Equus/390/3568/10002/-1
I just set the timing on the readout at 32 and use the tach on it to rev it to 3000 rpm and see if the TDC is right on the line where the case comes together.
Image

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 Post subject: Re: timing problems
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:55 pm 
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Location: Germantown Ohio
Call me, I think I might have a solution to your problem. 513-594-2879


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 Post subject: Re: timing problems
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:03 pm 
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Big thanks to Aaron Creech!! He figured it out for me. What it was, on the msd box, the two wires going to the distributor were green and purple. The little extension cord, the wires were colored green and purple. The pickup coil on the distributor the wires were orange and purple. So what I did was matched up all of the purples. I guess that was backwards. Aaron told me to flip flop the wires, so I put the orange on to the
purple, and advanced the timing. Everything fell into place, that was the problem. Thanks again Aaron :D :D :D


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 Post subject: Re: timing problems
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:53 pm 
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Glad to see ya got it figured out. You would think that the color code would be consistent. So does that mean we will see ya this weekend?

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 Post subject: Re: timing problems
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:40 pm 
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Odyknuck wrote:
Glad to see ya got it figured out. You would think that the color code would be consistent. So does that mean we will see ya this weekend?

the funny thing is i kept looking on msd web site and found drawning of the wireing but they were in black and white :roll: we will be there this weekend :D


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