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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:22 pm 
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I am leaning torwards a 1.9 saturn dohc but I like to hill climb. Is that going to be enough power.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:41 pm 
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I don't think so , unless your buggy is light to the point of being dangerous from not enough bracing. Only you can decide if you have enough power depending on what hills you are happy climbing. I suggest Subaru because it takes advatage of the attributes of the VW engine,,boxer means lower center of gravity. Except for the water and radiator it is not too much heavier ,being all aluminum. It is still 2 cylinders deep meaning it keeps the weight over the rear wheels unless you go chaindrive. The OBD1 2.2 engines put out about 60 hp per liter naturally aspirated. If you go v6 or suby 6 you need to scoot the back tires back about a foot to avoid wheel stands. KYBC's Honda may be the exception. Just my couple pennys,,hang tite,,there will be more info coming :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:29 pm 
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Also depends on your definition of hill climbing. I have went up some steep stuff but nothing like most guys on here do. If I had to do it all over again I would probably go Suby if you could find one cheap.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:41 pm 
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where is the best place to find a suby motor, harness, and computer.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:15 pm 
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Here's what I did, I found a 1992 Subaru legacy at the Junk yard for $300. I made sure it ran good. I got on line and went to KEP and ordered an adapter and instructions for the harness ( about another $500 ). I did the harness myslef. There are folks who will do your harness for money. To me it was fun ( and stressful ) doing the harness. No doubt the AC engine is quicker and easier to install but the WC engine once installed is pretty much trouble free. and adjustment free,..Just keep clean air and oil in it. :wink: I see nothing wrong with either ac or wc,,its just whatever cranks you buggy :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:13 pm 
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Subaru, IMO is THE best replacement buggy motor. I'm well into my 3ed year with my set up and I'm real happy with it. I'm going to be doing a re-build on one over the winter, start out next year with a fresh motor. Any 2.2 1994 and older are what your looking for. I did my harness like Firebug did, Steve did his, all of us had the same frustrating experience, still worth it. My 2.2 had 64,000 miles on it when I put it in. I put it on a chassis dyno and it pulled 100 hp @ 5000 rpm and 121 ftlb at 3300 rpm. There is plenty of info one doing a Subie transplant, on line or right here there are now 5 Subie powered cars in Woodsbuggy.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:39 pm 
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What size vw motors would be comparable to the saturn engine and the subaru engine. How much horsepower would each one put out.

Just curious.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:29 pm 
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Location: HUNTINGTON WV home of the cool black ecotac buggy
if ya have to go with coolant subi looks like the best bet mike,steve and fire bug all have nice subi setups but i sorta like the thought of a supercharged ecotec

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:28 pm 
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What about the 2.5 suby why is no one running it


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:42 am 
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Bad Influence wrote:
What size vw motors would be comparable to the saturn engine and the subaru engine. How much horsepower would each one put out.

Just curious.

I have heard from two different guys that were pretty experienced with buggies that the Saturn 1.9 feels about like a run of the mill 1915, not even close to a hot 1915. One of them switched to it, then went back to his stroker VW. He was looking for reliability and smoothness, but decided it was not worth the power loss and extra "baggage".

The subie, I dont know. I've only driven one, and that buggy has so much one-off stuff its hard to compare to any other buggy. (Aint that right, Fireplug? :wink: :D ) I know it had silky smooth power delivery and was pretty responsive at low end and pulled good up top , too.

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by Terry fryer on Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:28 pm

What about the 2.5 suby why is no one running it


I think they are usually quite a bit more expensive, even from boneyards. I have a friend who had a turbo 2.5 pulled out of a WRX STi, then pumped up by a tuner shop out west. It is pushing 350+ hp. It was an absolute beast on his buggy. Couldnt get it to hook even with major suspension changes, and it wouldn't hold a clutch for even a weekend. Could jump up some serious stuff, but couldn't climb jack. Now that motor is in an automatic 4WD "buggy" that he had custom built that kicks butt! His rail is now a 2920 a/c VW and is w/o a doubt the baddest conventional buggy I've ever seen in the woods. He rides them both at D&K a lot. Come ride with us this weekend and decide for yourself!! We'll find you a seat if your buggy aint done. You will have a blast!

Larry


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:21 am 
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Terry fryer wrote:
What about the 2.5 suby why is no one running it



Im running a 2.5, well not technically its actually sitting in my incomplete buggy in the garage. I have a 2.5 turbo'd and intercooled 330hp. Cant actually tell you the pro's and cons but believe me i will when its done...

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:48 am 
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everything you ever wanted to know and more about the honda v-tech motors........
how about the fact they are all built in ohio........interesting :wink:

http://corporate.honda.com/press/articl ... 0221001314

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:04 pm 
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That Honda is very impressive,,,,,,smarty :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:46 pm 
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Sounds like we need a drag strip or maybe an up hill drag to prove all this speed and horsepower talk. Then we could all see first hand what has the most bang for the buck. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:07 pm 
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ky-bc wrote:
everything you ever wanted to know and more about the honda v-tech motors........
how about the fact they are all built in ohio........interesting :wink:

http://corporate.honda.com/press/articl ... 0221001314

i did not forget about the big H i think it would be to much for a newbie

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:56 pm 
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Huey wrote:
Sounds like we need a drag strip or maybe an up hill drag to prove all this speed and horsepower talk. Then we could all see first hand what has the most bang for the buck. :D
Count me in

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:27 pm 
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Huey wrote:
Sounds like we need a drag strip or maybe an up hill drag to prove all this speed and horsepower talk. Then we could all see first hand what has the most bang for the buck. :D


Do I understand this is about the best WC power plant for the money.,,Count me in too... No AC's allowed in this debate :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:34 pm 
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can it be water cooled without the water?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:36 am 
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instigator wrote:
can it be water cooled without the water?



Yeah, Use antifreeze

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:00 am 
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Some would try Bull #hit as coolent
Count me in on the drag race
A/c go away

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:53 pm 
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kybc's honda buggy is amazing... i drove it at wellsville and hit vtech.... ill leave it at that!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:55 pm 
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i'm in !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Image

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:07 pm 
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Geez you guys are making feel bad bout my little saturn engine!!! :mrgreen: I have engine envy!!!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:17 am 
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the subaru option is an awesome one. light, low, pretty powerful, cheap, plentiful, reliable, etc. etc. etc.

I've done many subaru swaps. just did a '96 impreza 2.2 (OBD II) into an '86 subaru wagon. was very easy. and is much quicker than my OBD I 2.2 wagon. pretty much the only thing the early OBD II systems need is a vehicle speed sensor. I'd highly recommend these, much better torque curve from the OBD II system, and better mileage too. (these are all referred to as the EJ22e)

you have to be careful with the 2.5s. the early DOHC ones ('98 for the impreza RS, and '96-'99 for Legacies, EJ25D) were prone to headgasket issues. they do pretty well as long as you watch that temp gauge like an addict, but as soon as it creeps up just a bit (and it will....), they're done. and the heads warp easily too....

but, if you get a SOHC one from a '99-'01 impreza or '00+ legacy (EJ251), they're quite reliable, and put out something like 160hp. I'd recommend the impreza ones, as the legacy versions have more complicated electronics, that would be much more sensitive to being run in a buggy.

and then, there's the 3.3 6-cyl (engine code EG33). almost identical electronics to the '90-'94 EJ22e (6 coilpacks instead of 2, 6 injectors instead of 4, and one more cam sensor). 235hp. substantially larger/heavier than the 4-cyls, but an awesome motor, awesome torque curve, and with equal-length exhaust, they sound like a ferrari.


for any of these options. I HIGHLY recommend getting your hands on a complete, running donor car. depending one where you are in the world, you can probably find them with non-engine problems (as the engine is usually the last thing to fail!). the SVXs (EG33) were plagued by transmission problems.....and if you're anywhere where rust is an issue......well, yea, you know where I'm going with that.



also, shameless plug :D. I can do the wiring for any of these options for relatively cheap. check out my website in my signature.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:31 am 
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Hi Numby,,,I am making an honest attempt to do my own harness but if it don't work, can I send it to you? As you know, I am doing the 3.3 and I have just about made my money back ebaying the rest of the car. I will make it all back and then some before it is over. It takes some work but with my tight budget it is worth it. I am glad you know the subys so well,,,I will call on you for advice often. thanks 8)

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