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 Post subject: Which water cooled?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:11 pm 
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Location: Hernando, MS
I've got a cobra frame that I'm about to start building. I've been collecting a lot of parts that I'll need for it but one thing I haven't decided on is a motor. I'm thinking about a water cooled rather than pulling the 1600DP off my other buggy. My question is which would be a good one to go with? I have a 3 rib to go in the buggy and I know that will limit me to a point. I'll mostly be trail riding and some hills but nothing crazy. I know most are going with a ecotech but I know my 3 rib won't last with it. Thanks in advance for the help.


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 Post subject: Re: Which water cooled?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:54 am 
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I say spend the money once and not have to worry about it in the future! Try to find a 6 rib and go with an ecotech! Alpha Fab on here has a great ready-to-go kit that is worth the money. By the time you go to the junk yard and piece everything together it would be hard to compete with their price after everything is said and done. Just my two cents!

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 Post subject: Re: Which water cooled?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:11 am 
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X2 on the Ecotech. I currently run a Turbo charged 2.5 Subie. If I was starting on a buggy today I would go the Ecotech route.

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 Post subject: Re: Which water cooled?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:45 am 
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Odyknuck wrote:
X2 on the Ecotech. I currently run a Turbo charged 2.5 Subie. If I was starting on a buggy today I would go the Ecotech route.

I'm running a 2009 Subaru 2.5. I, like Ody, if it were available when I built my first car, I would have a S/C Ecotech.

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 Post subject: Re: Which water cooled?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:23 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Which water cooled?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:14 am 
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Why do you guys say eco over suby? Seems like the suby has a lower center of gravity to me. just curious ?

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 Post subject: Re: Which water cooled?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:33 am 
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diamonddav wrote:
Why do you guys say eco over suby? Seems like the suby has a lower center of gravity to me. just curious ?

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The Ecotec weighs roughly 278 lbs wet. The Subi will probably have a lower center of gravity but I couldn't imagine by too much. In the long run you will save $ with the Eco. Cost of parts are cheaper, the engines are cheaper, the harnesses are cheaper, and you don't need an expensive aftermarket EFI system to run it [and tune it]. It really boils down to that between 2006 and 2010 GM made 4.5M of these suckers. I mean - our complete 320 RWHP turn-key engine/turbo/harness system is LESS MONEY than Outfront's 300 RWHP ENGINE. LOL. I think that say's a lot right there.

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 Post subject: Re: Which water cooled?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:56 am 
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ECOTEC and what he /I\ said.....
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 Post subject: Re: Which water cooled?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:12 pm 
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diamonddav wrote:
Why do you guys say eco over suby? Seems like the suby has a lower center of gravity to me. just curious ?


The Suby does indeed have a lower center of gravity, by a bunch over an Echoteck. And I'm not seeing where the motors are cheaper to buy. I got a 2009 2.5L Suby, 15,000 miles, with the complete wiring harness, computer, throttle pedal shipped to my door for $1600. Parts, what parts? I've never had to buy engine parts for my last Suby.
Now in my case the wiring harness and re-flash for the ECU is expensive, almost $1200. As far as I can tell the only reason it's so much is it seems there is only one place that's able to do the job. I can go to a stand alone ECU and a custom wiring harness for about the same money, so the jury is still out on which way I'm going to go.

I chose a stock Suby because it's rated at 174 HP. IMO, anything more than 200HP, your asking for constant transmission problems.

I was one of the very first to go water cooled, almost 10 years ago now. The Echoteck, in it's current form didn't exist back then, the Suby did. As far as I'm concerned, the Suby motor IS the modern day version of the VW.

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 Post subject: Re: Which water cooled?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:08 pm 
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ecotec. cheap and simple. its a clean engine with no external brackets,etc. no oil pan mods needed. engines are cheap and plentuful if you look around. i have 300 in my engine,25.00 in my harness and nothing in purchasing my ecm and 275.00 in getting it programed. sold my 1641 for a 1000.00. :D :D

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 Post subject: Re: Which water cooled?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:21 pm 
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Not to long ago we were "discussing" the merits between VW and anything water cooled. Seems to me the conversation has changed some. At this point it doesn't matter. Honda Chevy or Subaru, ANYTHING is better than an air cooled noise maker.

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 Post subject: Re: Which water cooled?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:50 pm 
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Yeh ive been planning a 4seater w/c. For awhile now. The suby seems legit to me and i think or have been told u dont need to flash the ecm.but i think im leaning toward the eco.just read alot about timing chains,oil galleys,head gaskets and what not on forums. Looking at buying a 4seat frame too so if anyobe knows of anything let me know

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 Post subject: Re: Which water cooled?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:39 am 
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Location: Hernando, MS
MadMike wrote:
diamonddav wrote:
Why do you guys say eco over suby? Seems like the suby has a lower center of gravity to me. just curious ?


I chose a stock Suby because it's rated at 174 HP. IMO, anything more than 200HP, your asking for constant transmission problems.



That's what I'm trying to think about. I have a 3 rib out of a 76 bus with the too mounts but honestly I'm not looking to go over about 150HP for now. When that times comes hopefully by then I will of found a 6 rib. Down here they are really hard to find. I lucked up on my 3 rib and got it for $100 even though I had to drive 4 hrs to get it. I think all in all it's gonna come down to how much $$ I have to play with when the time comes and what's available.


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 Post subject: Re: Which water cooled?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:09 am 
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Location: Birmingham, Alabama
sINCE I BUILT THE PASSAT in '09, I have not busted a trans. Once , my toy weld came apart on the welded diff, but that is all the trouble I have had. The joy of no after market parts or adapter! I'll take hate now! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Which water cooled?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:10 pm 
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I say go with the alpha fab ecotec for all the above mentioned reasons. I would ask Shaun to see if he can detune the computer to run at only 65% throttle, keep it at 150hp. In a few years if you get a bigger trans, you can send the computer back and get it reprogramed for maximum.


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 Post subject: Re: Which water cooled?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:51 pm 
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Go Eco motor AND trans and use every hp you got! Lite those cut 35's up! Throw rooster tails! Someone said once... something like spend money once, cry once. How bout don't cry at all! :wink:


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