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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:01 pm 
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I wish we had the beating a dead horse Icon.....


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:29 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:38 pm 
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Why would you wanna beat a dead horse ? Its already dead . It must be kinda like ( its a jeep thing ) still don't understand that one either


Last edited by buggybarn on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:45 pm 
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buggybarn wrote:
Why would you wanna beat a dead horse ? Its already dead

That is the point...... :roll:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:22 pm 
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buggybarn wrote:
Why would you wanna beat a dead horse ? Its already dead . It must be kinda like ( its a jeep thing ) still don't understand that one either

I'm not surprised...


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:28 am 
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gasman wrote:
I know a certain somebody, not mentioning any names,uh cough cough uh (mad mike), that has a wicked subie SS that if would ever get finished might be a good climber but I know it will be an awesome trail buggy. Guess I'll try and build one eventually but I'll wait til my ac blows up. Chad :mrgreen:


Wait, what I do? I was tryin to stay out of this one.

"Blah, Blah, Blah." .................. Couldn't of said it better myself.

Chad, as soon as I get your stuff done, it's time for a new set of rear trailing arms for mine.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:47 am 
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And i was drunk when i wrote that mike!! I like the beating a dead horse thing too:lol::lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:13 pm 
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This topic isn't about a watercooled vs vw . We all know water cooled is cheaper to build and as far as reliability Idk I've had my 2276 for 4 yrs now and beat the shit out of it and havnt had an issuse with it . Get in turn key and go. My ? Was how they compare climbing . Seems to me from the shit ton of vids I've watched hillclimbing vw is the way to go until proven wrong . I'm done beating the dead horse


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:01 am 
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buggybarn wrote:
This topic isn't about a watercooled vs vw . We all know water cooled is cheaper to build and as far as reliability Idk I've had my 2276 for 4 yrs now and beat the shit out of it and havnt had an issuse with it . Get in turn key and go. My ? Was how they compare climbing . Seems to me from the shit ton of vids I've watched hillclimbing vw is the way to go until proven wrong . I'm done beating the dead horse

Watercooled vs vw hill climbing? So the topic IS about WC VS AC! It has been debated for as long as been a member.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:25 am 
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Put a WC in a factory frame and it will not handle well as the weight bias is to far to the rear. A custom or modified chassis that shifts the passenger and driver forward rebalances the weight and they climb very well. Some folks just like the sound of a valve train symphony.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:23 am 
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buggybarn wrote:
This topic isn't about a watercooled vs vw . We all know water cooled is cheaper to build and as far as reliability Idk I've had my 2276 for 4 yrs now and beat the shit out of it and havnt had an issuse with it . Get in turn key and go. My ? Was how they compare climbing . Seems to me from the shit ton of vids I've watched hillclimbing vw is the way to go until proven wrong . I'm done beating the dead horse


Not sure about conventional 2seaters , but you will have immortal hell on your hands trying to out climb a ky. Style one seater with a good 2500 cc or better on it , if the owner can drive , its done been proven , Darryl (d&k) , mike , charlie & rons Buggys have been on top competing with some high dollar ac Buggys with some excellent drivers piloting them with over 300 or more HP , from what i seen in the hill climb series & on some rides here in ky. , and yes I guess I'm partial to farfegnugen , I know that can't be spelled right lol , but that's just one mans opinion , really it depends on you & what you wan't & how you drive , different strokes for different folks , I like to watch any style buggy cLimb , I think there all amazing to watch when the driver can make them walk the dog ! :lol: :lol: 8) 8) :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:10 am 
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Any true climber will tell you that so far it's been ac and they have yet to be beat.



Clayton wrote:
I have spent alot of money and time trying to build something that will out do a vw buggy. So far there is nothing.

This should some it up for anyone who knows Clayton he's been there done that and this statement is fact not opinion. Chad :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:17 pm 
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X'S 2.DEAD HORSE AGAIN...BUT CHAINS ON A W/C AND IT WILL COME ALIVE. LOOK AT MARTY'S SOOB.MY BUICK WAS PETHETIC B4 THE TRANSFORMATION OPERATION.LOL


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:08 pm 
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gasman wrote:
Any true climber will tell you that so far it's been ac and they have yet to be beat.



Clayton wrote:
I have spent alot of money and time trying to build something that will out do a vw buggy. So far there is nothing.

This should some it up for anyone who knows Clayton he's been there done that and this statement is fact not opinion. Chad :mrgreen:

He said so far. When you coming back down Chad. Can't wait to smack your 2500 around
Lol

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:03 pm 
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Terry fryer wrote:
gasman wrote:
Any true climber will tell you that so far it's been ac and they have yet to be beat.



Clayton wrote:
I have spent alot of money and time trying to build something that will out do a vw buggy. So far there is nothing.

This should some it up for anyone who knows Clayton he's been there done that and this statement is fact not opinion. Chad :mrgreen:

He said so far. When you coming back down Chad. Can't wait to smack your 2500 around
Lol

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Someone call Madram and Busted Knuckles for this!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:37 pm 
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Right now I have 2 rails and 3 options of engines to chose from: EJ22, VW 1.8T or VW 1.8 EFI. The two VW engines weights around 230 lbs and the subaru around 265. I believe an a/c motor is around 215. Does 15 lbs really make that much difference when hill climbing, even after you more the battery (25 lbs) all the way forward? Have ya'll seen an a/c engine performing day/night difference after moving a rear mounted battery forward? Maybe when I experience hill climbing for the first (yeap, never been to one yet) all this will make sense but I find it hard to believe that 10-15 lbs will make a huge difference.

Update: I just googled the weight of a 2.2 ecotec and appears to be around 300 lbs? I guess it all makes sense now :D


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:46 pm 
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It's not just the weight, many people just slap a W/C engine on with no thought as to how far the weight has moved, given they're usually much longer than a VW.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:54 pm 
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It all about weight disturbution. My engine is 130lbs and mid mount so on my buggy I put as much as I could to the rear( battery,gas tank, etc.) to get 70-30 ratio


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:57 pm 
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A list of engines I found a while ago....
Psycho Alpha wrote:
MOTOR WEIGHT COMPARISONS

Subaru 2.5L N/A 285lbs. The motor mounts are 4 lbs
Subaru 2.5L intercooled turbo 320lbs. The motor mounts are 4lbs.

Northstar V8 n/a 510lbs. The motor mounts = 12 lbs
Northstar V8 twin turbo 565lbs. The motor mounts = 12 lbs

LS1 V8 n/a 480lbs. The motor mounts = 12 lbs
LS1 V8 twin turbo 520lbs. The motor mounts = 12 lbs

Honda 3.5L intercooled turbo 465lbs.
Honda 3.5L n/a 430lbs.

Mazda rotary 2 rotor, 285lbs
Mazda rotary 3 rotor, 480lbs

VW Stroker 2.3L N/A 260lbs. No radiator
VW Turbo 2.2L 285lbs. No radiator, no intercooler



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:08 pm 
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Another thing to consider is: the engine weights that I have seen listed are dry engine weight. This does not include exhaust, air filter assembly, transmission adapter or cooling system. I am not trying to say that a WC engine is not a good option, but there is much more involved than simply bolting the engine in your buggy. I know some people are very happy with their WC buggy and that is GREAT. I believe that this an awesome sport/hobby and it will continue to grow with new ideas and challenges. Remember when we ran stock motors with bug trans :lol: . We had fun then too. Keep up the good work and more ideas, I plan to be running an AC buggy after I am to old to get a drivers license :lol: :lol: :lol: .
Good Luck
Kenric


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:18 am 
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You have to think hard about this reason why an a/c does so well. When the stub axles in any buggy accelerates, they want to push under the weight .If there is weight up high the buggy tends to lift and that wastes energy that should have been used for push. The heavier the motor the easier the front wants to come up and do that. Does not those 1 seaters have loward floors? Rediculously dropped spindles are bad. Think. A big chain drive lifts in the rear as it pushes.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:19 am 
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You have to think hard about this reason why an a/c does so well. When the stub axles in any buggy accelerates, they want to push under the weight .If there is weight up high the buggy tends to lift and that wastes energy that should have been used for push. The heavier the motor the easier the front wants to come up and do that. Does not those 1 seaters have loward floors? Rediculously dropped spindles are bad. Think. A big chain drive lifts in the rear as it pushes.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:20 am 
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kvw wrote:
Another thing to consider is: the engine weights that I have seen listed are dry engine weight. This does not include exhaust, air filter assembly, transmission adapter or cooling system. I am not trying to say that a WC engine is not a good option, but there is much more involved than simply bolting the engine in your buggy. I know some people are very happy with their WC buggy and that is GREAT. I believe that this an awesome sport/hobby and it will continue to grow with new ideas and challenges. Remember when we ran stock motors with bug trans :lol: . We had fun then too. Keep up the good work and more ideas, I plan to be running an AC buggy after I am to old to get a drivers license :lol: :lol: :lol: .
Good Luck
Kenric


AMEN , let me preach on ! :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:07 pm 
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Terry fryer wrote:
gasman wrote:
Any true climber will tell you that so far it's been ac and they have yet to be beat.



Clayton wrote:
I have spent alot of money and time trying to build something that will out do a vw buggy. So far there is nothing.

This should some it up for anyone who knows Clayton he's been there done that and this statement is fact not opinion. Chad :mrgreen:

He said so far. When you coming back down Chad. Can't wait to smack your 2500 around
Lol

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Sounds like a plan. The 2500 is going on my old 2 seater but the 2387 on my single seaters enough to do the job,lol. Sometimes to much power can hurt you instead of helping you. And I believe you said it yourself that you got out climbed turkey day so I guess not yet holds up. I know we will have fun no matter who comes out on top. Chad :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:37 pm 
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AC/WC don't matter unless you got the BALLS to drive the wheels offa it


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