where are you talking about ron? harlan? i seem to remember at the last climb there people saying they were being assholes, but there always cool to us when we go down there. dtor has never hosted a woodsbuggy event YET the locals will end up shutting that place down but im going to have to place my vote for rush!! night riding being one reason, and its a bigger park! website says primitive camping only, permits are $25 for a week or $75 for a year, and thats per vehicle, so im sure ill be getting a year permit! someone close needs to talk to them and get the ok for it and coordinate with roger on making it a final. and i also agree with not agreeing on pineville, to many gravel roads!