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Clutch and pressure plate reference guide http://www.woodsbuggy.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=17884 |
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Author: | Twotrackerbryan [ Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:12 am ] |
Post subject: | Clutch and pressure plate reference guide |
In light of all of the talk of all the issues we are having with HP and transmissions I thought it would be worth while to add this to the mix. Please post your engine spec's, transmission specs, flywheel, pressure plate, clutch plate, car weight and tire size as well as any notes you deem pertinent to the subject. Brand of the products you are using as well as any input on 4 puck, 6 puck, fiber, fiber with spring center, metal woven, kush lock, etc. |
Author: | Twotrackerbryan [ Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:30 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Clutch and pressure plate reference guide |
Ecotec 2.4 supercharged HP: 225 Torque: 225 Transmission: VW 094 with some Weddle parts Flywheel: 180 mm Pressure plate: stage 2 Clutch plate: 6 puck Car weight: 2200lbs Tire size: MT 33x12.50x15 As many of you know I have had a few problems over the last year and I have been trying to resolve them. In both my previous 094's I ran stage 3 pressure plates from Kennedy and their 6 puck clutch disk. The first clutch disk lasted one year and had so much heat on the disk it completely warped and actually bowled out. The flywheel also showed signs of extreme heat. I should have added the clutch disk was almost down to the metal and mostly pulverized. After my recent transmission problems I decided to go with a stage 2 to try and add a buffer between the axels, transmission and engine. When I made the switch I also purchased a brand new Kennedy flywheel. The current draw back is I hate the sound the 6 puck makes when it engages. It basically has a metal to metal sound that just makes me cringe. Now for the fun part...when I spoke with Weddle and explained everything that is going on, they said I more than likely made more problems than I fixed. While I may have added a buffer with the stage 2 I more than likely just shortened the disk life even more. They suggested I go with a stage 4 once the new transmission is complete. From my perspective its all relative, stick with a stock transmission and go with a stage 1 or 2. Build a transmission and go with a stage 3 or 4. Currently my end goal is the following Ecotec 2.4 supercharged HP: 225 Torque: 225 Transmission: VW 094 fully built from front to rear Flywheel: 180 mm Pressure plate: stage 4 Clutch plate: 6 puck Car weight: 2200lbs Tire size: MT 33x12.50x15 |
Author: | lngtrvl2332 [ Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:49 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Clutch and pressure plate reference guide |
2.5 Subaru N/A HP 175 TQ 175 Was 091 bus with all the weddle stuff (soon HV1) 228mm Flywheel Stage 3 Pressure Plate 9" 6 puck clutch disc 2550 lbs buggy... Bryan. I have gone through most of same issues. An organic clutch with the stage 3 will hold up better and last longer under "normal" driving conditions. But if you get it hot once in the trails it never grabs good again. With the 6 puck it goes the other way. You can get it hot in the trails. Let it cool for 5 minutes and back to full clutch. Drive with it in heavy stop and go traffic and boy does it get chattery fast. I think we share the same problem (weight).... When I had a windowless 1300lb buggy with no stereo and a wimpy little winch, no tool box, radiator, etc. I never had clutch issues. I won't even try to hill start and tight trails where you are on and off that puck clutch constantly getting 2500 lbs. Moving again and again will eat those 6 pucks like a pencil eraser. My old AC buggy was 1900 lbs (which I would say is over weight as well), but it had a 3 rib. That little bit of extra gearing in the 3 rib really seemed to help with the clutch issues. That was why I opted to build my HV1 more like a 3 rib. I also had to learn that 6 pucks don't like friendly feet. I try to use my clutch like a light switch. As soon as the clutch starts to make contact I drop the pedal and go. That technique alone took me from 2 clutch discs a year down to one. |
Author: | tw9294 [ Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:09 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Clutch and pressure plate reference guide |
2.2 Ecotec turbo 231 hp at wheels 255 tq at wheel 094 stock with super diff stage 3 pressure plate C.B. Performance/Centerforce dual friction disc. 2200 lb buggy 33x12.50x15 I used to have an organic disc with 31 inch terra tires. That disc was fine for three years behind the n/a ecotec. When I switched to 33 inch boggers it only took two weekends in the woods to finish off that disc. After some research I bought the dual friction disc. After 3 weekends in the woods(I don't get out enough ) 1 day at the dragstrip and a couple thousand street miles this summer behind the turbo Ecotec it seams ok. Im going to look at it this winter when I have things apart. |
Author: | MickeyMouse [ Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:51 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Clutch and pressure plate reference guide |
Stats on my Buggy.... Honda 3.5L VTEC Approx 250 HP Never been on a dyno 094 Trans (Weddle 1,2 and R&P with Super Diff) Stage 2 pressure plate Kush Disc 2400 pounds 35 inch cut boggers Even though the buggy is heavy, it is crazy fast and has plenty of power. I just had the Trans upgraded after I broke the stock R&P. Hopefully this will last a little longer. |
Author: | Twotrackerbryan [ Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:24 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Clutch and pressure plate reference guide |
"I won't even try to hill start and tight trails where you are on and off that puck clutch constantly getting 2500 lbs. Moving again and again will eat those 6 pucks like a pencil eraser". Absolutely eats them up. As I stated the first disk was destroyed and the second showed quite a bit of wear after only 4 days of trail riding. On most given days of riding we do between 60 and 100 miles of trails. Most days are mixed with 1st and 2nd gear driving on tight trails as well as some trails where we get going in 3rd and 4th and go 70+. Throw in a few hills during the day and its amazing the cars even make it back to camp. "I think we share the same problem (weight).... When I had a windowless 1300lb buggy with no stereo and a wimpy little winch, no tool box, radiator, etc. I never had clutch issues. " My old was the same way. 1600lb car with a 3rib, stage 2 with fiber and a built 2276. I could run for about 4 years on a disk. TW9294, how is the slippage when this heats up? MM, Which Kush disk are you using and how is it holding up? After digesting some information over the past few days and reading a few posts, I currently have no idea what I want to go with. 8" vs 9"? fiber vs metallic? Based on the type of riding we do, it may be best to go back to fiber. We have way too many starts and stops in a given day. My brother is running a stock Ecotec 2.4 on an 091 with a fiber disk and has no issues with anything for the past two years. Its amazing how a little more HP and torque changes the entire playing field. I didn't even think about the dual disk until now...Has anyone ever run the dual 8" or 9" from Kennedy? http://www.kennedyenginc.com/Pages/Doub ... tches.aspx |
Author: | lngtrvl2332 [ Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:58 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Clutch and pressure plate reference guide |
Dual disc will only give you more holding power. It will be twice as temperamental as one 6 puck. A stick shift 4x4 truck would have the same problems if it wasn't for low range. The only real clutch saver is gearing... |
Author: | jimp [ Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:27 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Clutch and pressure plate reference guide |
Sometimes a flywheel, clutch, pressure plate and throwout all need to be replaced as a set. If any one of the set is not replaced, you run the risk of continuing a pattern of failures. 1) Flywheel. The flywheel surface must be flat and true. A used flywheel often has hard spots that can quickly become "high spots". High spots ruin clutch discs quickly. 2) Clutch disc. A clutch disc that has become too hot is no longer reliable and must be replaced. Just like a disc brake shoe that has been overheated, it no longer has the frictional characteristics that once upon a time made it stop your car. 3) Pressure plate. A pressure plate must be treated as the precision device that it is. When you bolt down or unbolt the pressure plate, you must follow a pattern of tightening or loosening ...in order to prevent warping or distorting the mounting plate. An overheated pressure plate must be replaced as well. "Reconditioning" the surface will get a smooth surface, but hard spots ...also become high spots. 4) Throw-out. The throw-out bearing does not always release the pressure plate uniformly. This means that when the clutch pedal is only partially released, only some sections of the pressure plate are partially disengaged and other parts are almost fully engaged. This vectored force can mean that only one part of the clutch disc is getting your vehicle through that mud hole or anywhere else that you are using partial clutch engagement. The clutch will wear unevenly and possible cause a cascading sequence of component failures. 5) Throw-out arm. The throw-out arm must be checked that it pivots smoothly and uniformly. If the throw-out bearing is only being pushed by one of the two arms, the side loading can create a diagonal or vectored engagement of the pressure plate. 6) Venting air. The bell housing on most trucks has a large opening where the throw-out arm protrudes. This large hole is terrible for ingesting moisture, but is good for allowing air to flow around the inside of the bell housing. Unfortunately this is a big problem for buggys and mud trucks that get sticking & rusted pressure plates that will not release properly. 7) Switching to a high pressure pressure plate is not to be considered a fix unless all of the above criteria is met. It has always been my understanding that the higher pressure pressure plates are for drag racing where a relatively heavy car has to be launched with minimal clutch slippage. Off road vehicles are different. We NEED controlled slippage in order to get us out of tricking situations that require finesse without stalling the engine. Some riders go back to single or dual-mass flywheels when they go bigger horsepower. |
Author: | Red Barron [ Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:14 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Clutch and pressure plate reference guide |
Honda 3.2 J32A2 250 horse to the rear wheels 091 Trans all Wedle gears and torsional input Porsche 914 flywheel Stage 1 plate with Cush lock disk 33x 12.50x15 tire Blew the third gear hub teeth clean. Like Mouse says heavy four seat buggy but crazy fast (125) mph Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
Author: | helmetguy [ Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:16 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Clutch and pressure plate reference guide |
Eco 2.0 supercharged 243 rwhp with 238 lbs torque 091 trans weddle gears ,weddle r and p,300m input shaft,super diff with chromoly backing plate Stage 4 with 4 puck, destroyed the 6 puck with stage 4,but this is holding 31 tractors but planning on 40 inch tractors soon The buggy weight was 1538 when it came out but probably around 1575 now Sent from my SCH-I545L using Tapatalk |
Author: | PhillipM [ Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Clutch and pressure plate reference guide |
Old spec: Mazda 1.3 Rotary ~260-270 HP ~170lbft torque Renault UN5 trans Stage 3 Kennedy cover. 4-puck solid cerametallic plate 180mm chromoly flywheel 2000 pounds 31 inch Fedima EvoXtreme's. Clutch was like a lightswitch but never slipped in use, had to be careful not to burn it shunting or putting the car on a tall trailer. Saying that, it put up with launching in 2nd gear, which was good for 60mph. New spec: Honda 2.0L Supercharged ~360-370HP ~230-240 lbft torque Renault UN5 trans 1800lb Nissan 200SX cover 3-puck solid cerametallic plate - 230mm. Stock Honda flywheel (machined to suit) ~2150 pounds 31 inch Fedima EvoXtreme's. Haven't run it yet, but not expecting any issues, clutch was sized and made specifically for the job. |
Author: | helmetguy [ Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:27 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Clutch and pressure plate reference guide |
That's a lot of pony's out of that little motor, gotta love the superchargers!!!!! Sent from my SCH-I545L using Tapatalk |
Author: | PhillipM [ Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:06 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Clutch and pressure plate reference guide |
The charger and ancillaries are sized for 500, but I think we'll have enough issues with mid-300's without that, so it's turned down at the minute, running nice and slow so we should be pretty good for heat management + no belt slip issues, etc. |
Author: | helmetguy [ Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:51 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Clutch and pressure plate reference guide |
Wow!! That's awesome getting that much with it turned down even!! Sent from my SCH-I545L using Tapatalk |
Author: | Joe l [ Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:44 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Clutch and pressure plate reference guide |
Dang didn't know we had so many hp junkies here. I LIKE IT! 2.4 supercharged ecotec 220 with 0 boost. All n.a Since I lost an injector on the dyno Heading back next month with 1200cc injectors and e85 And dropping a pulley size. Currently have a 2300# kennedy and a Stage 2 4 puck. Engages quick but there is a small area you can milk the clutch. Seems alright for 220hp maybe a Lil quick for my liking but, with a little more ponies it may be alright! Everything in my trans has been gone through and replaced with goodies other then R&P and 3rd and 4th gear. Sharper 1st and 2nd definitely helps! |
Author: | PhillipM [ Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:51 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Clutch and pressure plate reference guide |
Joe l wrote: Dang didn't know we had so many hp junkies here. I LIKE IT! Even with 360-370 I'm still 200bhp down on the boys I'm chasing |
Author: | Joe l [ Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:15 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Clutch and pressure plate reference guide |
Are you saying you need 200 more hp? Lol |
Author: | Twotrackerbryan [ Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:41 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Clutch and pressure plate reference guide |
PhillipM wrote: Joe l wrote: Dang didn't know we had so many hp junkies here. I LIKE IT! Even with 360-370 I'm still 200bhp down on the boys I'm chasing They now have the twin turbo 2.5L out of the Cadillac that should get you in the 500hp+ range. That should do it! |
Author: | MickeyMouse [ Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:55 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Clutch and pressure plate reference guide |
I cannot image having more power than what I currently have... |
Author: | Joe l [ Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:13 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Clutch and pressure plate reference guide |
Get you a 06 or 07 2.4 with forged rods Put forged pistons in it. New valve springs Cam isn't necessary but you can pick up some more hp out of aftermarket cams. Get yourself a charger. SC or Tc or even procharger if your crazy and you have a 500 + hp ecotec for less than 4k. |
Author: | PhillipM [ Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:38 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Clutch and pressure plate reference guide |
Joe l wrote: Are you saying you need 200 more hp? Lol They have the advantage of putting some through the front wheels, I think I'll struggle to put it all down as it is! |
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