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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:12 am 
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Location: Dewitt, Michigan
In light of all of the talk of all the issues we are having with HP and transmissions I thought it would be worth while to add this to the mix. Please post your engine spec's, transmission specs, flywheel, pressure plate, clutch plate, car weight and tire size as well as any notes you deem pertinent to the subject.
Brand of the products you are using as well as any input on 4 puck, 6 puck, fiber, fiber with spring center, metal woven, kush lock, etc.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:30 am 
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Location: Dewitt, Michigan
Ecotec 2.4 supercharged
HP: 225
Torque: 225
Transmission: VW 094 with some Weddle parts
Flywheel: 180 mm
Pressure plate: stage 2
Clutch plate: 6 puck
Car weight: 2200lbs
Tire size: MT 33x12.50x15

As many of you know I have had a few problems over the last year and I have been trying to resolve them. In both my previous 094's I ran stage 3 pressure plates from Kennedy and their 6 puck clutch disk. The first clutch disk lasted one year and had so much heat on the disk it completely warped and actually bowled out. The flywheel also showed signs of extreme heat. I should have added the clutch disk was almost down to the metal and mostly pulverized. After my recent transmission problems I decided to go with a stage 2 to try and add a buffer between the axels, transmission and engine. When I made the switch I also purchased a brand new Kennedy flywheel. The current draw back is I hate the sound the 6 puck makes when it engages. It basically has a metal to metal sound that just makes me cringe. Now for the fun part...when I spoke with Weddle and explained everything that is going on, they said I more than likely made more problems than I fixed. While I may have added a buffer with the stage 2 I more than likely just shortened the disk life even more. They suggested I go with a stage 4 once the new transmission is complete. From my perspective its all relative, stick with a stock transmission and go with a stage 1 or 2. Build a transmission and go with a stage 3 or 4.

Currently my end goal is the following

Ecotec 2.4 supercharged
HP: 225
Torque: 225
Transmission: VW 094 fully built from front to rear
Flywheel: 180 mm
Pressure plate: stage 4
Clutch plate: 6 puck
Car weight: 2200lbs
Tire size: MT 33x12.50x15

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:49 am 
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Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 12:20 pm
Posts: 465
Location: Northwest Indiana
2.5 Subaru N/A
HP 175
TQ 175
Was 091 bus with all the weddle stuff (soon HV1)
228mm Flywheel
Stage 3 Pressure Plate
9" 6 puck clutch disc
2550 lbs buggy...

Bryan. I have gone through most of same issues. An organic clutch with the stage 3 will hold up better and last longer under "normal" driving conditions. But if you get it hot once in the trails it never grabs good again.

With the 6 puck it goes the other way. You can get it hot in the trails. Let it cool for 5 minutes and back to full clutch. Drive with it in heavy stop and go traffic and boy does it get chattery fast.

I think we share the same problem (weight).... When I had a windowless 1300lb buggy with no stereo and a wimpy little winch, no tool box, radiator, etc. I never had clutch issues.

I won't even try to hill start and tight trails where you are on and off that puck clutch constantly getting 2500 lbs. Moving again and again will eat those 6 pucks like a pencil eraser.

My old AC buggy was 1900 lbs (which I would say is over weight as well), but it had a 3 rib. That little bit of extra gearing in the 3 rib really seemed to help with the clutch issues. That was why I opted to build my HV1 more like a 3 rib.

I also had to learn that 6 pucks don't like friendly feet. I try to use my clutch like a light switch. As soon as the clutch starts to make contact I drop the pedal and go.

That technique alone took me from 2 clutch discs a year down to one.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:09 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:52 pm
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Location: wooster ohio
2.2 Ecotec turbo
231 hp at wheels
255 tq at wheel
094 stock with super diff
stage 3 pressure plate
C.B. Performance/Centerforce dual friction disc.
2200 lb buggy
33x12.50x15

I used to have an organic disc with 31 inch terra tires. That disc was fine for three years behind the n/a ecotec. When I switched to 33 inch boggers it only took two weekends in the woods to finish off that disc. After some research I bought the dual friction disc. After 3 weekends in the woods(I don't get out enough :evil: ) 1 day at the dragstrip and a couple thousand street miles this summer behind the turbo Ecotec it seams ok. Im going to look at it this winter when I have things apart.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:51 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:53 pm
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Location: Atlanta, GA
Stats on my Buggy....

Honda 3.5L VTEC
Approx 250 HP
Never been on a dyno
094 Trans (Weddle 1,2 and R&P with Super Diff)
Stage 2 pressure plate
Kush Disc
2400 pounds
35 inch cut boggers

Even though the buggy is heavy, it is crazy fast and has plenty of power. I just had the Trans upgraded after I broke the stock R&P. Hopefully this will last a little longer.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:50 pm
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Location: Dewitt, Michigan
"I won't even try to hill start and tight trails where you are on and off that puck clutch constantly getting 2500 lbs. Moving again and again will eat those 6 pucks like a pencil eraser".

Absolutely eats them up. As I stated the first disk was destroyed and the second showed quite a bit of wear after only 4 days of trail riding. On most given days of riding we do between 60 and 100 miles of trails. Most days are mixed with 1st and 2nd gear driving on tight trails as well as some trails where we get going in 3rd and 4th and go 70+. Throw in a few hills during the day and its amazing the cars even make it back to camp.


"I think we share the same problem (weight).... When I had a windowless 1300lb buggy with no stereo and a wimpy little winch, no tool box, radiator, etc. I never had clutch issues. "

My old was the same way. 1600lb car with a 3rib, stage 2 with fiber and a built 2276. I could run for about 4 years on a disk.


TW9294, how is the slippage when this heats up?


MM, Which Kush disk are you using and how is it holding up?


After digesting some information over the past few days and reading a few posts, I currently have no idea what I want to go with.
8" vs 9"?
fiber vs metallic? Based on the type of riding we do, it may be best to go back to fiber. We have way too many starts and stops in a given day. My brother is running a stock Ecotec 2.4 on an 091 with a fiber disk and has no issues with anything for the past two years. Its amazing how a little more HP and torque changes the entire playing field.
I didn't even think about the dual disk until now...Has anyone ever run the dual 8" or 9" from Kennedy?
http://www.kennedyenginc.com/Pages/Doub ... tches.aspx

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:58 am 
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Location: Northwest Indiana
Dual disc will only give you more holding power. It will be twice as temperamental as one 6 puck.

A stick shift 4x4 truck would have the same problems if it wasn't for low range.

The only real clutch saver is gearing...


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:27 pm 
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Posts: 163
Location: Pittsburgh,Pa.
Sometimes a flywheel, clutch, pressure
plate and throwout all need to be replaced
as a set. If any one of the set is not replaced,
you run the risk of continuing a pattern of
failures.
1) Flywheel. The flywheel surface must be
flat and true. A used flywheel often has
hard spots that can quickly become "high
spots". High spots ruin clutch discs quickly.
2) Clutch disc. A clutch disc that has become
too hot is no longer reliable and must be
replaced. Just like a disc brake shoe that
has been overheated, it no longer has the
frictional characteristics that once upon a
time made it stop your car.
3) Pressure plate. A pressure plate must be
treated as the precision device that it is.
When you bolt down or unbolt the pressure
plate, you must follow a pattern of tightening
or loosening ...in order to prevent warping or
distorting the mounting plate. An overheated
pressure plate must be replaced as well.
"Reconditioning" the surface will get a smooth
surface, but hard spots ...also become high spots.
4) Throw-out. The throw-out bearing does not
always release the pressure plate uniformly.
This means that when the clutch pedal is only
partially released, only some sections of the
pressure plate are partially disengaged and
other parts are almost fully engaged. This
vectored force can mean that only one part
of the clutch disc is getting your vehicle through
that mud hole or anywhere else that you are
using partial clutch engagement. The clutch will
wear unevenly and possible cause a cascading
sequence of component failures.
5) Throw-out arm. The throw-out arm must be
checked that it pivots smoothly and uniformly.
If the throw-out bearing is only being pushed
by one of the two arms, the side loading can
create a diagonal or vectored engagement of
the pressure plate.
6) Venting air. The bell housing on most trucks
has a large opening where the throw-out arm
protrudes. This large hole is terrible for ingesting
moisture, but is good for allowing air to flow
around the inside of the bell housing. Unfortunately
this is a big problem for buggys and mud trucks
that get sticking & rusted pressure plates that will
not release properly.
7) Switching to a high pressure pressure plate is
not to be considered a fix unless all of the above
criteria is met. It has always been my understanding
that the higher pressure pressure plates are for
drag racing where a relatively heavy car has to be
launched with minimal clutch slippage. Off road
vehicles are different. We NEED controlled slippage
in order to get us out of tricking situations that
require finesse without stalling the engine. Some
riders go back to single or dual-mass flywheels when
they go bigger horsepower.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:14 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:23 pm
Posts: 1212
Location: Chattanooga Tennessee
Honda 3.2 J32A2
250 horse to the rear wheels
091 Trans all Wedle gears and torsional input
Porsche 914 flywheel
Stage 1 plate with Cush lock disk
33x 12.50x15 tire
Blew the third gear hub teeth clean.

Like Mouse says heavy four seat buggy but crazy fast (125) mph


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:16 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:02 am
Posts: 771
Location: bardstown, ky.
Eco 2.0 supercharged
243 rwhp with 238 lbs torque
091 trans weddle gears ,weddle r and p,300m input shaft,super diff with chromoly backing plate
Stage 4 with 4 puck, destroyed the 6 puck with stage 4,but this is holding
31 tractors but planning on 40 inch tractors soon
The buggy weight was 1538 when it came out but probably around 1575 now

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:23 pm
Posts: 709
Location: UK
Old spec:

Mazda 1.3 Rotary
~260-270 HP
~170lbft torque
Renault UN5 trans
Stage 3 Kennedy cover.
4-puck solid cerametallic plate
180mm chromoly flywheel
2000 pounds
31 inch Fedima EvoXtreme's.

Clutch was like a lightswitch but never slipped in use, had to be careful not to burn it shunting or putting the car on a tall trailer.

Saying that, it put up with launching in 2nd gear, which was good for 60mph.

New spec:

Honda 2.0L Supercharged
~360-370HP
~230-240 lbft torque
Renault UN5 trans
1800lb Nissan 200SX cover
3-puck solid cerametallic plate - 230mm.
Stock Honda flywheel (machined to suit)
~2150 pounds
31 inch Fedima EvoXtreme's.

Haven't run it yet, but not expecting any issues, clutch was sized and made specifically for the job.


Last edited by PhillipM on Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:27 pm 
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Location: bardstown, ky.
That's a lot of pony's out of that little motor, gotta love the superchargers!!!!!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:06 am 
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Posts: 709
Location: UK
The charger and ancillaries are sized for 500, but I think we'll have enough issues with mid-300's without that, so it's turned down at the minute, running nice and slow so we should be pretty good for heat management + no belt slip issues, etc.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:51 am 
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Location: bardstown, ky.
Wow!! That's awesome getting that much with it turned down even!!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:44 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:31 pm
Posts: 131
Location: Florence ky
Dang didn't know we had so many hp junkies here.

I LIKE IT!

2.4 supercharged ecotec

220 with 0 boost. All n.a
Since I lost an injector on the dyno
:roll:

Heading back next month with 1200cc injectors and e85
And dropping a pulley size.

Currently have a 2300# kennedy and a
Stage 2 4 puck. Engages quick but there is a small area you can milk the clutch.

Seems alright for 220hp maybe a Lil quick for my liking but, with a little more ponies it may be alright!

Everything in my trans has been gone through and replaced with goodies other then R&P and 3rd and 4th gear.

Sharper 1st and 2nd definitely helps!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:51 pm 
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Location: UK
Joe l wrote:
Dang didn't know we had so many hp junkies here.
I LIKE IT!


Even with 360-370 I'm still 200bhp down on the boys I'm chasing :shock:


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:15 pm 
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Location: Florence ky
Are you saying you need 200 more hp? Lol

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:41 pm 
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Location: Dewitt, Michigan
PhillipM wrote:
Joe l wrote:
Dang didn't know we had so many hp junkies here.
I LIKE IT!


Even with 360-370 I'm still 200bhp down on the boys I'm chasing :shock:


They now have the twin turbo 2.5L out of the Cadillac that should get you in the 500hp+ range. That should do it!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:55 pm 
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I cannot image having more power than what I currently have...

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:13 pm 
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Location: Florence ky
Get you a 06 or 07 2.4 with forged rods
Put forged pistons in it. New valve springs
Cam isn't necessary but you can pick up some more hp out of aftermarket cams.

Get yourself a charger. SC or Tc or even procharger if your crazy and you have a 500 + hp ecotec for less than 4k.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:38 am 
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Joe l wrote:
Are you saying you need 200 more hp? Lol


They have the advantage of putting some through the front wheels, I think I'll struggle to put it all down as it is!


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