We set fire to the front brake pads last year, so they must be doing something

I prefer the dual handles over the single. I have had both and really don't like the single setup. I have also had front and rear brakes together (with porportioning valves) and seperate. I have recently converted my Buggy to seprate front brakes . I like this setup by far. I find the only time I really need or want front brakes in the Woods is when I need to stop fast (right plumberbill) or going down a really steep grade. I like to be able to control how munch front brake i use and still have control of the Buggy, especially in muddy conditions. I read in one of thes posts in this thread that front brakes are 50% however I would say they are more like 30% due to weight biasing of most Buggys. Unlike most street cars the weight in in the rear of the buggies.

It is, but even a .5G stop on mud/dirt will bring that to more like 50:50 given the high CoG of a buggy.

Most street cars end up with about 80% of the braking up front, even if they're a 50:50 weight balance to start with, and that's with a CoG about half the height of a buggy, if not less...but stopping at ~1G


Depends how hard you're braking I suppose, if all your using them for is coming to a stop from low speed runs then I suppose you can get away with just rear brakes, whereas when racing I imagine we're stamping on the pedal a lot harder, a lot more often.

Interesting, every thing I have read on offroad buggys tends to state 30/70% front/rear.

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Well, ours runs 35/65 front to rear weight distribution, but if you set the brakes up like that it'd lock the rears up far before you got to maximum braking, we always set ours 50:50 with a torque wrench and the pads and discs warm, which results in the back just locking before the fronts, to make sure you don't head straight for trees (as you also have engine braking at the rear too).

Obviously if you're only ever braking at 0.2G then you'll retain more weight over the rear, so rear brakes only are fine, just might have a shock if you ever have to stop quickly from speed

I guess it depends on what kind of riding you do, PhillipM. Until you've nosed over a 50' bluff in the rain thats so steep you cant see the ground under you when you start over it and you got all kinds of stuff to steer around on the way down, it is hard to realize the benefit of putting the front brakes on a seperate handle.

I'm sure you got the race buggy thing figured out, but the woods is a whole 'nother deal.

Well said Larry!

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I'm afraid we do a bit of that too, I know the lastest pictures were from hard-packed earth and gravel, but we've a fair few on the calender that are purely running through the woods, our courses are extremely varied
We come down more than our fair share of 1:1 hills, and given most of those courses are in Wales, summer tends to be signalled by warmer rain....

That's why our car is built so narrow and on a short wheelbase rather than going for the extra travel + width we could have with +4 arms, the trails are too narrow.

If you can go up it, you should be able to stop on it coming down (and I've watched plenty of the youtube vids. and it seems like not everybody can ) as I mentioned earlier, it's easy to alter the bias with the rear fiddle brakes and engine braking anyway, if you've got them set right to start with.

well im glad i got both sides of the picture but i think i will go with what everyone says is best for woods.. i thinking single master pedals for rears and dual handle cutters... what is everyone doing for the front brakes? i have a good place to mount to to put it on the left with a single lever just dont know what to use for a slave and such... im in a bind on whether to get my brakes done and put a rack in it or get a tranny...

I guess it all comes down to personal preference.

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Pretty much, at the end of the day you're just out to have a bit of fun, whereas every second counts for us.

Just use a master cylinder like the one your using for the rear brakes. Here is a link to how i recently did mine:
http://www.woodsbuggy.com/index.php?opt ... =23&t=8892

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By saying 1:1, do you mean 1 foot of vertical drop for every 1 foot of horizontal ?? Like 45 degrees?



Hayshaker, for general use the dual handles will serve you fine, but a single is the way to go if you wanna play on hills that you have to whip in and out of stuff quickly. You cant change you grip back n forth on the handles quick enough if you have a fast climber. 9 1/2 out of 10 single seaters in KY run single handles. An electric line lock with the switch on your cutter handle will do the trick for holding both back wheels while you got one foot on the clutch and the other on the gas when you have the need to do so.

Yup, there's an odd occasion it's a fair bit more if we're running through a quarry, but I've never got out and measured it

We actually put more to the front on those, as there's more weight up front and the binding the trailing arm setup creates on the brakes doesn't matter so much when it's already on the nose....

Some of 'em are vertical but the brakes don't do much in the air

Ahaa!! Now I see why we have the differences in theories. Phil, the roads to GET to some of our riding parks are nearly 45 degrees! Blacktop paved roads that they drive school buses on.
We are talking about HILLS here, mountains, not rolling planes with trees on them. I mean hills you can stand next to and put your elbow out and touch the side of the hill without leaning .

check this out, there is no trick photography here. As good as these vids are, they still dont even do the hills their justice. The first hill is little more than a warmup hill and all but the very spry would be out of breath walkin up it. The first really steep one (at 3:25 secs on the vid) is about 35' high in only about 8' to 10'. The one up out of the creek (at 4:41 secs) is prolly 70' high in maybe 20' , if that. : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCbywO3qNHg

And this is a very different style of buggy, but badass in its element as well, climbing a real 'hill' too.
What say....85 degrees for most of it? 90 at the lip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVMgc4xdWrU

These are HILLS.

That first vid is barely 45*, if that

I'll let you have the 2nd though, I ain't jumping that!
(Although, I'd definately want some front brakes coming down it, there'd be no weight on the back!)

Yeah , sure it is. I aint talkin about the first hill in the longer vid. Like I said , vids never do hills justice. The one at 3:25 is over 3 buggy lengths up and less than one out, makes it a little more than 45 degrees I'd think.

And the only person I can see going down it, albeit backwards, has to put a wheel against a tree to stop

For sure. You even think bout braking on that if you dont make it and you will be on your lid instantly. Just barely feather 'em to slow the backwards descent a little is the best you can hope for. I'm tellin you the last 30' its straight up, even if the vid doesnt look it.

Too much rear brake
It's those v-treads you guys use, they're shite on the brakes.

Dude, there is ZERO weight on the front end when coming off those bluffs backwards. You could have metal stakes mounted solid facing rearwards for front tires and they wouldnt even slow you down when going backwards off that kinda shit.

You aint gonna even start up that with anything other than cut 23 degree v treads spinning like crazy, except maybe some bolted tires. Then when they bite you puke even a Weddle geared tranny unless your chaindriven. In which case most are too heavy to start out in that creek bed from a dead stop heading straight up.

Bingo, now turn the car around and work out which end you need the brakes on

What do u mean? I , and most on here, already know front brakes are a must.

Yep, but a 70:30 rear/front bias under those conditions will lock the back a long wayyyy before the fronts are near full braking power.

Thats the whole point of having the front brakes separate from the rear with its own master cylinder and handle. With the ever changing terrain in Woods this concept gives you full control of your braking system Including bias. Picture going down a muddy hill with tree branches and wet leaves on it. Do you want the front brakes applied at that point, not me cause I am headed for a tree and I need to steer. It takes very little braking under these conditions to lock up the front wheels and have no control of your steering.

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