Thats the whole point of having the front brakes separate from the rear with its own master cylinder and handle. With the ever changing terrain in Woods this concept gives you full control of your braking system Including bias. Picture going down a muddy hill with tree branches and wet leaves on it. Do you want the front brakes applied at that point, not me cause I am headed for a tree and I need to steer. It takes very little braking under these conditions to lock up the front wheels and have no control of your steering.

I run Yokahama offroad tires (snow tire tread) in the front and cut Boggers in the rear. The tires still just slide during braking on a muddy downhill. I have done the brakes both ways and prefer the seperate front brakes. I try one porportioning valve and even had two porportioning valve in series on the front brakes and still did not like they way they make my car feel.

I suppose we could debate this for a week or two and entertain the folks here on Woodsbuggy however again it all comes down to personal preference.

Yes it does sound wierd. How does installing a valve in the rear make the fronts less active?

:shock:you guys still at it??

I love the added input,,you can teach this old dog new tricks,,,,sorta

:shock:you guys still at it??

Because it allows you to setup a car that is biased to the rear for the really muddy stuff, but then slowly pushes bias to the front as you brake harder and harder when you find more grip.
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Ok, but I will be hard on them as soon as I drop off the crest of a steep hill so my front brakes will lock up in short order.
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The way the proportioning valve works is quite similar to the blowoff in a digressive damper setup, or even a high-flow Fox/King with a standard stack, there's a point where the force vs pedal pressure curve knees over and becomes less steep, which then steadily shuffles brake balance to the other end of the car the heavier you brake, however, the initial curve is still as steep as normal until the valve cracks, so by putting the valve in the rear of the car you can then set the rest of the brakes up so the rears still lock before the fronts on the slippiest stuff you can find, but because the valve will crack open and slowly reduce rear line pressure vs pedal pressure, it shuffles the brakes to the front when you find either more grip, or when you have more weight over the front.
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Good info however my above statement still applys
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That helps massively with not locking the tyres up as it allows the fronts to have lower initial braking force whilst the weight transfers onto them, then ramps up the pressure to match.
With the valve in the front, it'll tend to snatch at the fronts as you first touch the brakes and make them lock, then reduces the pressure after that, which doesn't help when they're already locked, just makes them hard to modulate

Ya never know. Odds are it will stay the way it is. The seperate brakes work well for me. BTW thanks for your expertise, keep it coming. Nice to have a brake expert on board.

thank you Ody! just kidding

Is that my rite of passage over, or do I have to learn the secret handshake?

Alright, but I ain't tickling your belly when you roll over onto your back.

Ahaa!! Now I see why we have the differences in theories. Phil, the roads to GET to some of our riding parks are nearly 45 degrees! Blacktop paved roads that they drive school buses on.
We are talking about HILLS here, mountains, not rolling planes with trees on them. I mean hills you can stand next to and put your elbow out and touch the side of the hill without leaning .

Just use a master cylinder like the one your using for the rear brakes. Here is a link to how i recently did mine:
http://www.woodsbuggy.com/index.php?opt ... =23&t=8892

Because it allows you to setup a car that is biased to the rear for the really muddy stuff, but then slowly pushes bias to the front as you brake harder and harder when you find more grip.
The way the proportioning valve works is quite similar to the blowoff in a digressive damper setup, or even a high-flow Fox/King with a standard stack, there's a point where the force vs pedal pressure curve knees over and becomes less steep, which then steadily shuffles brake balance to the other end of the car the heavier you brake, however, the initial curve is still as steep as normal until the valve cracks, so by putting the valve in the rear of the car you can then set the rest of the brakes up so the rears still lock before the fronts on the slippiest stuff you can find, but because the valve will crack open and slowly reduce rear line pressure vs pedal pressure, it shuffles the brakes to the front when you find either more grip, or when you have more weight over the front.
That helps massively with not locking the tyres up as it allows the fronts to have lower initial braking force whilst the weight transfers onto them, then ramps up the pressure to match.

With the valve in the front, it'll tend to snatch at the fronts as you first touch the brakes and make them lock, then reduces the pressure after that, which doesn't help when they're already locked, just makes them hard to modulate