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| Author: | jsaylor [ Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Just put new brakes on rear |
Sandrail, no front brakes, irs rear, 235 15 tires, just replaced the rear with new drums, 22mm slaves, super stopper pads. It still does not stop that great, The pedal feels hard, is this normal? also i'm using an inexpensive 22mm master cylinder. |
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| Author: | MickeyMouse [ Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just put new brakes on rear |
How did it work before you replaced the brakes? |
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| Author: | jsaylor [ Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just put new brakes on rear |
Not a very noticable differance, what is the symtom of air in the line? my pedal feels very firm |
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| Author: | 2800passat [ Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just put new brakes on rear |
If you like drums ,find an old type 3. Remove every thing and it will bolt rite up. Silicone the drums to the backing plate one nite then razor blade them loose the next a.m. and they will be water tite. Seal up the adjuster ports with rtv after you are done.The front shoes and wheel cylinders in a Super Beetle are the same as a Type 3 Sq.Back or Fastback rear.THEN your too big 22mm master cylinder will work better.A 19 mm brake cylinder will give you more braking power but less full pedal of coarse.If you can find a 17 mm off an old vintage early '60's, it will lay some rubber on the street if your tires aren't toooo tall.Be careful with toooo good of brakes or you'll roll over backwards on a hill like we all see too much.Dave out. |
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| Author: | jsaylor [ Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just put new brakes on rear |
I was told to purchase the largest wheel cylinder I could for more stopping power, from what I hear you saying the smaller cylinter has more stopping power? |
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| Author: | ridenrace6 [ Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just put new brakes on rear |
i'll take a shot at this, the wheel cylinder and master cylinder dia. are relative to each other. a larger dia master cylinder will move more fluid per inch and have less travel but be harder to push, a smaller dia master cylinder will move less fluid per inch but will have a longer travel and be easier to push. when it comes to the wheel cylinder end these effects are right the opposite. with that being said, somebody like phillipm from across the pond will be better at explaining and giving better info, i would suggest sending him a pm or email |
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| Author: | 2800passat [ Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just put new brakes on rear |
jsaylor wrote: I was told to purchase the largest wheel cylinder I could for more stopping power, from what I hear you saying the smaller cylinter has more stopping power? LIKE RIDENRACE IS SAYING,"Small to large. But if you get to much pedal travel distance b4 braking THEN you would have to go to a bigger m/c bore. |
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| Author: | jsaylor [ Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just put new brakes on rear |
Yes my pedal is hard to push, do they make a smaller m/c? my cutting brakes are 3/4 bore, they don't work so good either. I could put in my smaller slaves, I was thinking of power bleeding, could air in my lines cause this poor braking? |
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| Author: | Red Barron [ Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just put new brakes on rear |
Rear drum brakes are designed to do 40% of the braking in the car. Now you expect them to do 100% without upgrading the width of the drum. Passat's point is valid. If you desire better stopping without upgrading to disk brakes then you must go type 3 drum. I would suggest reinstating your front brakes with a proportioning valve.  It is all good man we all started somewhere. |
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| Author: | gasman [ Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just put new brakes on rear |
Smaller bore more pressure,larger bore more volume.air will make pedal hard.if you push more fluid than your wheel cylinder can handle then you can bend the shoes and blow out the cups.so with drums try and match things.type three drums are two piece and are wider and are by far the best drums.don't know why your set on drums but these are the best and later on you'll have a hub to put a rotor over if you convert to disc.drums don't like sand,water,mud or basically any type of off roading.but back in the day that's what we all ran so I know they work ( for what they are  ). Chad
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| Author: | MickeyMouse [ Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just put new brakes on rear |
Red Barron wrote: Rear drum brakes are designed to do 40% of the braking in the car. Now you expect them to do 100% without upgrading the width of the drum. Passat's point is valid. If you desire better stopping without upgrading to disk brakes then you must go type 3 drum. I would suggest reinstating your front brakes with a proportioning valve. It is all good man we all started somewhere. Even with basic disc brakes, my cutter and rear brakes were useless. If you want to stop well and be able to use your cutter, you really need to go to disc brakes. If/when you do, make sure to get at least a 4 piston caliper. |
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| Author: | holeman [ Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just put new brakes on rear |
dont have a ansewer to your question but would like to know how to post my on question.if anyone has an ansewer i was trying to replace my front shocks today and the old metal sleve from old shock was froze up on the shock any easy cure welcome comments. |
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| Author: | Red Barron [ Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just put new brakes on rear |
Mouse I agree with everything you said except for the four piston caliper as the budget disc conversion come with four piston Super Beetle front calipers. The budget kits will work but if you have any run out in the stub or rotor then your pads will back off and you will have to pump the brakes. You can use a floating caliper and even a single piston as long as you use a large GM metric caliper as they were designed to do 60% of the braking on a variety of full size cars and trucks. I agree that a four piston caliper would be the best but it is hard to beat a remanufactured GM metric caliper for $10 loaded with pads (with core) and you can find them at any auto parts store in the country. Brackets are $10 each from Speedway. I use a Ford Grand Marquis rotor and cut any 4 lug drum down to fit inside and re-drill the rotors, press in some studs and your done for under $200.00 buck. If they work on my gun ship running rear brakes only then I think it will work quite well on most woods buggies. |
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| Author: | jsaylor [ Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just put new brakes on rear |
I did power bleed this afternoon, this did make a difference, I can lock up the rear tires if I push hard enough, is this typical? |
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| Author: | Red Barron [ Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just put new brakes on rear |
Yes - the reason power brakes were invented. 
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| Author: | jsaylor [ Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just put new brakes on rear |
I use my buggy on back roads only, sometimes I may have go down a fairly steep rocky road however I don't for fear of sliding off the road, I'm thinking front brake, how many of you don't have front brakes and why? |
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| Author: | fortydegnorth [ Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just put new brakes on rear |
| Author: | jsaylor [ Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just put new brakes on rear |
After power bleeding helped a bit, 22mm master, 22 slave, pedal is hard to push, if I changed the master to 17 would it make much difference? |
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| Author: | ridenrace6 [ Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just put new brakes on rear |
jsaylor wrote: After power bleeding helped a bit, 22mm master, 22 slave, pedal is hard to push, if I changed the master to 17 would it make much difference? that should make the pedal esier to mash/require less effort to lock up the wheels but will require more pedal "travel" not sure if they make one but a 19mm might be better 
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| Author: | jsaylor [ Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just put new brakes on rear |
I was assuming my master is a 22mm, just went out and had a look, not part number or brand, no stamping at all. I did measure the outside cylinder, it's 1 and 5/16, any idea what this bore might be? Thanks |
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